How do you do it? This whole process has escaped me.
We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there. How the hell do you get shows if you're us? Denver has venues. Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response. Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion? Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty). None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to? Seems difficult.
I think most local gigs we get are from me sitting about in pubs and enough people knowing I'm in a band to point me out to people sorting gigs. Also fact I bring epic backline.
Quote from: zachoff on January 20, 2016, 12:53:46 AM
How do you do it? This whole process has escaped me.
We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there. How the hell do you get shows if you're us? Denver has venues. Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response. Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion? Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty). None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to? Seems difficult.
It isn't your fault. I found that when I hit my mid 50's, finding gigs was damn near impossible. The last 20 years, or so, I played in bands, it was all blues. Sort of age appropriate.
I was fortunate to join established bands that had club connections.
The bands I formed from scratch had near zero opportunities.
We put out expansive promo kits but seemed to be wasting our time. The music was great but once the club owner saw the promo pic of oldsters, they shit canned us.
My only suggestion is if you are getting no where, disband. And find an established band that needs you.
I've played bass for 50 years. And I was damn good.
But when the Alzheimer's hit, I forgot how to play. So my fretless bass sits next to me in the dining room where I write my cigar reviews.
Clubs are looking for bands with a following. The only way they make any dough off you is your followers drinking.
If you can't bring in more than 20-30 people, you don't stand a chance. I hate being blunt but this is my experience.
One trick we used was playing for free for several months so word of mouth spread. That's a great way to build a following.
Then...you can start charging once the club owners have heard from you and see the names of clubs you've played.
Just my opinion and buddy, I feel your pain. Getting old ain't for sissies. And older musicians tend to be much better players than the younger ones. So it's a big waste of talent to be in a great group but can't play out.
Quote from: zachoff on January 20, 2016, 12:53:46 AM
How do you do it? This whole process has escaped me.
We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there. How the hell do you get shows if you're us? Denver has venues. Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response. Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion? Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty). None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to? Seems difficult.
Is this for Straighten the Crooked? This is Jess from Low Gravity. Hit me up and I'll point you to the right people.
Hey, Jess... It's a new band. Me and Matt are still bass/vox & guitar. New drummer, new direction. More crossover/thrash sorta stuff but still a little bit of Straighten the Crooked in there. Thanks though... Much appreciated.
I was gonna suggest networking with some other bands, but it looks like you're doing exactly that!
has anyone thought of actually catering to(ie "marketing to") the older crowd?
you said "age appropriate". that may be the key.
being basically over the hill myself, i'm losing interest in breakout highschool battle of the bands and school of rocks.
it is great for the kids and their parents, but that's about it.
the radio focuses on the young crowd. the clubs focus on the young partiers.
WHERE DO THE OLDSTERS PARTY?
well, I have been contemplating shit along these lines for a while
we have a couple concepts in the works and I share them:
turbo geezer: the main goal is sort of like the mass driver mantra "balls to the wall party"
sets of nothing but shit kicking rowdy stuff.
old bikers and vets still dig the rock. play for them
i'm going to do a country set too. probably going with the name "Mason Dixon"
there is no reason one band cannot be many bands. wear a different getup and play a different set
Look you guys, rock has entered an era that has NEVER existed before: AGING ROCKERS
there are shitloads of them. you should hear the wasted people requesting songs on the classic station on sat nites. I love those people
they dredge up amazing old shit.
I swear they are out there, and a new mindset needs to be developed. they(we) don't want to listen to a bunch of punks just cutting their teeth.
around here guys like pat daley and charlie wiener do very well in the old music community.
as per usual, file under "crazy flushable ideas"
QuoteWHERE DO THE OLDSTERS PARTY?
At home. What do I win?
so maybe we need something like "The Cougar Club" to get these people out.
"No one under 50 allowed in unless accompanied by a fossil"
and they will have a replaceable Hollywood glass front window to throw stuff through just to show everyone who rocks hardest
now let your minds run heh....that could be a fun place once the people loosen up. old folks are a riot when they cut loose.
especially if the mgmt. gives them lots to do every day: games food contests prizes bands dancing minus any condescendence from younger people watching.
pay special attention to the amenities and infrastructure to cater more to an older set. I would imagine,. the bathrooms would require special attention, but that right there is probably a huge deal breaker for many older folks: your standard bar bathroom is fucking disgusting and old folks cant do the necessary gymnastics..ok im grossing myself out..you know what I mean
if you had a chill place to hang out for a laugh and some diversion and really relax because all needs are more or less covered, minus the punk asses of course.
would you go there?
everything old school has changed so much in the whole music scene that it almost seems like it is going to be an eventual loser to perpetuate the current way things are done.
chief, i'm just throwing mud at the wall. there has got to be a slick way to get nice gigs outside of this whole club hierarchy that always seems rife with idiots, and as OP pointed out. the whole scene is loaded towards the younger crowd. there just has to be a way.
edit:
"Yep, we call this place 'The Dig'. I know, to you it resembles a house of blues.
But there ain't nothing in there 'cept fossils, so no."
Quote from: jibberish on January 20, 2016, 05:20:43 PM
there just has to be a way.
A tour of assisted living communities and nursing homes?
Sell merch such as Depends
TM with yer band's name silkscreened on?
or something along those lines....
assisted living communities. those folks are still 70% or w/e self sufficient. they occasionally only need the serious pro medical assistance.
i bet some poking around might uncover somewhere that has some kind of rowdy Saturday nite event deal. they may have entertainment budgets
I don't care how old I am or get, big band is novelty and for my occasional listen. I think some dumbshit stereotype got established at a certain time like the "aging sinatraists" so old people listened to frank or benny goodman, and that became the defacto standard for representing old people music.
those peeps are pretty much all cashed out.
now the old people may have started on 50's rock/blues/jazz/country.
gimme the Sabbath S/T no matter how old I am, that's what i'm saying here. not the Charleston
I would be grateful if bands showed up to the hole I was trapped in some day and brought rock with them
Quote from: RacerX on January 20, 2016, 05:29:19 PM
Sell merch such as DependsTM with yer band's name silkscreened on?
that's actually an awesome idea. heh. super custom merch everyone racing around in wheelchairs with *edit:
big large band stickers(giving the wrong idea here) wearing band t-shirts
They can print on anything now. I used to work on one dude's balloon printing machines. imagine that shit. my sister has a special inkjet that can print any flat surface
and she showed me the catalogs of the big wholesale houses that can supply and print your w/e on basically anything.
maybe if everyone had Immortal corpse paint CPAP masks they would all still be happily wearing them, you know, like spiderman underoos. you automatically rule. heh.
Anyway,if you were a super fun time for those folks, they would probably wipe out your merch and couldn't wait until you got back with another fun set for them
I think unless you look young for age, 27 seems to be the age the discrimination starts. I think going to out of the way spots and booking your own shows in Grange Halls and places like that might be the way to go. Those people are starved for big time entertainment. I live in a small town now and its all Bluegrasd music, but when a good tribute band comes to town the people do turn out, young and old.
You NEED to get involved in the local scene. Make time to see bands that sound kind of like you do and talk to them, get to know them.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on January 20, 2016, 11:44:33 PM
You NEED to get involved in the local scene. Make time to see bands that sound kind of like you do and talk to them, get to know them.
Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band. If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene. Then there are the clubs and or bookers that only book their "friends" so you stand very little chance of getting your foot in the door.
Not true in all cases but it happens quite a lot. Be prepared to make your own scene playing house parties grange halls and VFWs until you can crack the local club scene. Or better yet start passing around some good blow and hire a couple hookers to grease the wheels for you!
Finding a different hobby curtails every issue I've read here.
Seriously, getting old sucks. I think finding satisfaction with simply creating the music helps the way you feel about it all. You're up against so many things that it's all but impossible to gain a following. At least that's the way it is here.
It's funny to watch the generation younger than myself go through the transition to old timers.
im up there in age and I get all the opportunities I need. funny thing is, theres a shitload of bands in my area that are comprised of older dudes. a lot of the guys in bands in my town, are the same dudes that were in bands in my town when we were in our 20s. its fucking remarkable actually. and the younger guys playing seem to be cool with us, ive actually had a younger guy come up to me and talk about bands I was in back in the 90s. I was shocked and surprised at his knowledge of that shit.
I think it depends a lot on the kind of music. heavy rock and metal, in my experience, seem to be ok with age. its like bikers. you don't stop riding your Harley and quit the MC club because you got older. you just become an elder statesman in the scene. it seems to be respected.
like someone said, this is kind of new because only now are we getting aging metalheads and rock guys. like lemmy said, if you think youre too old to rock, then you are.
I am the worst person to answer this question, because I don't play in a popular band. But I think there are a couple of general things I can say.
You can do a lot of band networking online. It takes a while to get to know people that way though.
QuoteDenver has venues. Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response.
Are these small clubs or bigger venues? Either way, a lot of places are booked by 3rd parties. Contacting the club is not going to do anything, in those cases, you have to find the promoter. Also, lots of places don't want to arrange the bills (Lets see, Cockhammer wants to play here. We should ask Dick Tit to open). They prefer to be presented with a complete roster for the evening. Not always, but it's common. Try proposing an entire night.
Good website/bandcamp, records out on a label, good quality Youtube clips, positive reviews of shows and releases.
A promoter told me that he expects opening bands to bring in people, beyond the folks who were already going to the show anyway (I can't remember how many, I think he said 20 people). If you can't bring at least 10 paying customers, you probably shouldn't be opening a club show. 20 if it's a bigger venue. People who are there especially to see you, or your band made the show more important (and not counting people on your guest list.)
Back in the day, nobody wanted to book hardcore punk bands. The club owners didn't like the music, and were afraid of the fans. The solution was to book the shows themselves. Set up your own shows at the local Moose Lodge or rental hall. Or find a bar who has nothing going on, and either rent it, or ask if you can set up a show there, with the idea that this slow bar will be filled with drinkers.
You say the guys are too busy to play weeknights. But that's when a lot of the gigs are. Weekend nights are prime time slots which everybody wants. It's very likely that if you do get a booker's attention, you'll be offered a weeknight slot. Which you might have to turn down. So on top of being old and greying etc, you're also "unavailable". Meanwhile, the younger bands will jump on those shows.
Maybe your band will be destined to always be a weekend hobby, there's nothing wrong with that. Some guys have poker night, or bowling night. They go hunting or skiing on the weekends. My music project is kind of like that (no chance of commercial success). In a way, it's nice because it takes off some of the pressure, and your project can just be about having fun.
Quote from: spookstrickland on January 21, 2016, 02:04:07 AM
Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band. If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene.
In small to mid sized cities people get sick of seeing the same bands play the same songs over and over and want new bands to form and move in.
I'm lucky(possibly 'spoiled') as we have a few dives in town that are easy to set up shows at as well as some nice venues with owners who are into heavy music. If this was not the case I probably wouldn't even bother trying to play live outside of maybe house shows. All of this horror story talk of pay to play, asshole club owners, toxic scenesters, etc makes me ill.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on January 21, 2016, 11:32:19 PM
Quote from: spookstrickland on January 21, 2016, 02:04:07 AM
Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band. If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene.
In small to mid sized cities people get sick of seeing the same bands play the same songs over and over and want new bands to form and move in.
I'm lucky(possibly 'spoiled') as we have a few dives in town that are easy to set up shows at as well as some nice venues with owners who are into heavy music. If this was not the case I probably wouldn't even bother trying to play live outside of maybe house shows. All of this horror story talk of pay to play, asshole club owners, toxic scenesters, etc makes me ill.
When it comes right down to it, house parties have been some of the funnest shows Ive ever played, the old blues guys used to do that all the time called them "Fish Fries" or something like that, they got paid in Booze, Food and Pussy. Plus you get a longer set and no rush to go anywhere after the show.
Quote from: zachoff on January 20, 2016, 11:55:38 AM
Hey, Jess... It's a new band. Me and Matt are still bass/vox & guitar. New drummer, new direction. More crossover/thrash sorta stuff but still a little bit of Straighten the Crooked in there. Thanks though... Much appreciated.
Cool. I've got a new project too (similar to LG, but we like to diversify our lineups) now if you want to hook up let me know. We're booked thru May but I may have a June date soon.
Also, I'm an old. There are a lot of great venues in Denver and I dont remember a time here where we had so many talented, down to earth bands playing in the 'scene'. As someone that's been playing here for 20 years or so, I have learned one thing: you will not get shows in this town without the help of other bands. 80% of the time, the booking agent will give one band an open date and that band will usually get the line up together (this obviously for non-tour support shows). So unless you're out networking, going to shows, emailing, texting, etc its going to be tough. I am not saying it's right, wrong or fair, it's just how I see it works here. It's also just my opinion.
Let me know if I can help
Either way, Good luck!
One piece I haven't seen mentioned is, if you're old, you should be really fucking good at what you do. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of washed up fat balding dudes just jamming some played out bullshit. We're older than most of the bands we play with, but we're really good. Complex arrangements, three-part harmonies alternating with textures of screaming, and a bunch of big ass amps and drums. Our bassist plays a six string fretless. So even though a lot of other bands here don't play psychedelic doom (most of them are crust and black metal) we still get asked to play shows, and people come see us because we're having fun and playing some shit that makes them go... what?!?
/endbragrant
Agree... if you're grizzled looking veterans, you probably can't get away with playing basic shit that teenagers can play.
what the fuck are you guys talking about. being old and grizzled doesnt mean you should have cannibal corpse type chops. think about sabbath and vitus. not super hard music to play for the most part. when i was a teenage bass player i was playing sabbath riffs.
"Nobody wants to watch a bunch of washed up fat balding dudes just jamming some played out bullshit."
not true. my gf goes to every show my band plays. willingly.
Quote from: mortlock on January 22, 2016, 11:48:33 PM
my gf goes to every show my band plays. willingly.
O NO!
the end is near
(get it????hahahahahahaaaahahaa)
Quote from: mortlock on January 22, 2016, 11:48:33 PM
what the fuck are you guys talking about. being old and grizzled doesnt mean you should have cannibal corpse type chops. think about sabbath and vitus. not super hard music to play for the most part. when i was a teenage bass player i was playing sabbath riffs.
"Nobody wants to watch a bunch of washed up fat balding dudes just jamming some played out bullshit."
not true. my gf goes to every show my band plays. willingly.
I agree, I dont care about technical virtuosity and I know most non musicians feel the same way. I like bands that have: Great tone, Good songs and the ability to transmit their emotions sonically to the audience. Sure not everyone feels this way but I think its significant.
I'm not just talking technical chops (though if you've been doing the shit for three decades and still can't play better than most of those kids I don't know what to tell you) but also that you should, by now, know how to BRING IT. And Morty, judging by what little you've posted, it doesn't sound like you're playing classic rock tunes or verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-verse-chorus stoner songs. You go to kill.
I don't know man. my bands are primitive as fuck. nothing hard about our shit at all. we like it that way. take noothgrush as an example to the other bands I mentioned. nothing overly complicated but they crush you with heaviness. I guess that's what we aim to do in our own way. as well as trying to have an original vibe to our stuff as much as possible.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that once you get older, other responsibilities creep in. there was a time when I was in bands that practiced 3x a week for 3 or 4 hours at a time. you could write more complex shit. now I practice once a week with the band, you can only get so complicated otherwise you never get anything down.
at the end of the day, im just happy im still playing and have band mates who are on board. GRIND FOR LIFE!!
Quote from: mortlock on January 23, 2016, 04:59:00 PM
I don't know man. my bands are primitive as fuck. nothing hard about our shit at all. we like it that way. take noothgrush as an example to the other bands I mentioned. nothing overly complicated but they crush you with heaviness. I guess that's what we aim to do in our own way. as well as trying to have an original vibe to our stuff as much as possible.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that once you get older, other responsibilities creep in. there was a time when I was in bands that practiced 3x a week for 3 or 4 hours at a time. you could write more complex shit. now I practice once a week with the band, you can only get so complicated otherwise you never get anything down.
at the end of the day, im just happy im still playing and have band mates who are on board. GRIND FOR LIFE!!
Same here, since my son was born and my band mates all have kids we are happy to practice just once a week and its the simple little riffs and songs that get played the most for the reasons you stated above. We do bring a sonic artillery blast that Most younglings have no idea how achieve.
consider playing once every two months. then your family and friends are not thinking:
"oh I missed him this month, Ill just go to the show next month"
if they do that once, then it will be 4 months wait for them! that way you have a legit fanbase even if only 8 people, and other bands will let you open for you if they know they can sell 8 drinks and drinks to their fans.
Good music can be simplistic although it's possible to play simplistic music badly. You definitely don't want to do that if you are playing out at any age. Even hacks can practice enough to not completely suck though, that's more or less my motto.
This thread took a funny turn. Yup, we're old guys and nope... We're not technically masterful. We're just not, but we have fun. Problem is our practice space is a at least 40 miles from Denver... And we're older... And we hardly ever go to shows anymore. That's probably our biggest problem. Sorry, Denver. We're old and lame and live far away and can't make it out that much. Thanks everyone for participating it my super awesome old guy bitch thread!!!
Quote from: zachoff on January 24, 2016, 11:57:48 PM
This thread took a funny turn. Yup, we're old guys and nope... We're not technically masterful. We're just not, but we have fun. Problem is our practice space is a at least 40 miles from Denver... And we're older... And we hardly ever go to shows anymore. That's probably our biggest problem. Sorry, Denver. We're old and lame and live far away and can't make it out that much. Thanks everyone for participating it my super awesome old guy bitch thread!!!
Your guys situation has "houseparty" writen all over it. Fuck the clubs play music and party on!
i play in a few bands, and being in my mid 40's. i'm amazed ANYONE comes and sees us at the few gigs per year we do. Fuck i remember being 19 and seeing what i classed old fuck bands, and they were probably only 30 odd. But yeah you gotta pull some heads on the few gigs you play. next year will be 30 years of semi professional gigs, it blows my mind.
Guten Abend meine Damen unnnnd Herrrrrren.
it is once again crazy idea time sponsored by, well you know..mélange...
today's crazy idea is: Create your own venue.
The first step to creating one's own venue has already been done since forever. It is called "Open Mic Nite".
MC brings a little PA and his guitar, sets up and ego trips his own shit for kind of way too long.
Then the signup list gets to play.....
ok, the deal here is that this MC dude got with the potential venue and arranged the happening.
He is strapped with the responsibility of the PA, but he is bringing people into this place and they will spend money on food/beverages
it doesn't even have to be alcohol oriented either(but that always helps)
in the summer, some of these like speedway gas stations have little car wash-hot dog parties or wtf...well there's opportunity screaming for someone to add to the scene
you tell them "we'll sell merch and we're good" but even no merch, you get to play out
a band playing just off a main street in the summer is like a super magnet. everyone gets real curious.
outlaw pirate generator jam like in the deserted ballfield behind city hall on a sat afternoon (and actually quite legal)
advertise low volume concerts. you can use surround speakers and make the sound huge without being loud. this also will go great with the local officials of all types and the residents
the trick would be to get regular happenings and people starting to anticipate and actually look forward to the next one
then the buzz builds. then you suck a shitload of other old fuck bands into the vortex with you...heh nice dreams huh?
But, this is the frame of mind that you could walk around with and I bet you will see all kinds of possibilities that you would not have previously considered.
then add that in with the house parties and w/e
next summer, my buddy and I are trying to get the brass up to set up outlaw at the end of the outdoor row of the tri-C jazz festival. go in as avante-garde jazz. Holy Crap style.
gonna need a super stealth like Honda generator for that shit tho.
Damn, I hate being old (42) and not being able to do as much as I did like 5-10 years ago. Or maybe I miss the enthusiasm and the energy mostly. But it has mostly to do with circumstances and life in general. Life fucking sucks sometimes lol. Everything is a hassel nowerdays. Getting gigs, trying to get the band to rehearse, coming up with new riffs that doesn't suck. ;D There are always to much work in the way and too little time do fun things. And I hate posting on FB. I miss Myspace!
Now I'm gonna go and play some guitar!
But I'm not giving in!
Great advices in this thread as well!
We got a show, btw! April 9th at the Streets of London!
I miss living in Denver, sniff sniff.
Boobs help - shouldn't be too much of a problem in 2016.
Quote from: zachoff on March 21, 2016, 09:44:47 PM
We got a show, btw! April 9th at the Streets of London!
Now all you gotta do is kick some ass.
Quote from: TannisRoot on March 23, 2016, 01:09:38 PM
Boobs help - shouldn't be too much of a problem in 2016.
Nothing beats Boobs for getting your foot in the door. Just ask Manson....Chuck, not Marry.