I've been playing with alternate tunings, and it's always a PITA trying to figure out what gauge of string to use, so I've found a few online equations that demonstrate what to do, but has anyone seen a chart of such, and if not, would anyone be interested in a chart that maps notes to a string gauge, for a given scale length at a standard tension?
I'd be interested. Part of the reason I had locking tuners put on my SG years back was so I could swap out strings quickly and reuse ones I took off. It worked out pretty neat. I had all these strings hanging from the ceiling and tuned from E way down to A or so. String tension can have a big effect on tone for sure.
Well the equations I looked at used a standard tension, from that if you wanted looser strings you'd go to a smaller gauge, if you wanted tighter, you'd go to a higher gauge. This is more for say I want to tune a guitar to C C C B D D where all the C's are the C below low E and the B is the B above standard A and the D's are a standard D. Well I could look at a set of .010's and know that the D is a .26 but to get the right tension in the B I need to be slightly thicker than a .36 and the C's need to be thicker than a .46 but how much thicker?
That's some pretty crazy alien tuning.
dont know if this will help you but its what i use when I want to determine the right gauge to use for steel tunings.
standard neck length for steel guitar is 24 inches, same as a standard for guitar.
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm (http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm)
Have you played with this yet?
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html
Yeah, those are for calculating tension, I was working from this http://terrydownsmusic.com/technotes/StringGauges/STRINGS.HTM (http://terrydownsmusic.com/technotes/StringGauges/STRINGS.HTM)
Quote from: Chovie D on April 20, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
dont know if this will help you but its what i use when I want to determine the right gauge to use for steel tunings.
standard neck length for steel guitar is 24 inches, same as a standard for guitar.
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm (http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm)
Cool, thats gonna save me ;D
BEWARE: The 90% starts below this line
Thing is, mathematics can never account for personal preference. It might get you close but I guess that's better than a shot in the dark.
What the... What kind of tuning is that?
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Quote from: eugenicscum on April 21, 2012, 09:34:18 PM
What the... What kind of tuning is that?
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http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/tab/tuning.html (http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/tab/tuning.html)
There is a bunch more to how they play than tension. Compliance is the actual thing that determines how they feel, and you can change tension without changing gauge by messing with the core sizes and shape, and wrap composition. Once you mess with that you change the inharmonicity properties, which limits how far you can go with those shenanigans. But Newtone can make you a standard gauge set of bass strings that are at full tension tuned to C.
Compliance is basically the bit that accounts for how a guitar actually feels to play, and has loads more factors than the strings, but the maths is calculable if you can account for those factors.
Quote from: Chovie D on April 20, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
dont know if this will help you but its what i use when I want to determine the right gauge to use for steel tunings.
standard neck length for steel guitar is 24 inches, same as a standard for guitar.
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm (http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm)
I used that table when I bought my lap steel, and it was off by quite a bit. The scale length is the same as a standard guitar. When the strings arrived, they tuned up alright, but the strings needed a lot more tension. Just laying the bar across 'em sent them way sharp. I ended up needing much heavier strings. So for lap steel, it didn't cut the mustard. Gotta assume steel needs the same kinda tension, but the table wasn't even close for the lap steel application.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 22, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
There is a bunch more to how they play than tension. Compliance is the actual thing that determines how they feel, and you can change tension without changing gauge by messing with the core sizes and shape, and wrap composition. Once you mess with that you change the inharmonicity properties, which limits how far you can go with those shenanigans. But Newtone can make you a standard gauge set of bass strings that are at full tension tuned to C.
Compliance is basically the bit that accounts for how a guitar actually feels to play, and has loads more factors than the strings, but the maths is calculable if you can account for those factors.
Sounds interesting, no mention of this on their site though, just that their strings are generally lower tension. Any idea of price for these? would quite like a set of 105 or 110 that had a nice tension at C#.
Quote from: moose23 on April 22, 2012, 12:48:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 22, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
There is a bunch more to how they play than tension. Compliance is the actual thing that determines how they feel, and you can change tension without changing gauge by messing with the core sizes and shape, and wrap composition. Once you mess with that you change the inharmonicity properties, which limits how far you can go with those shenanigans. But Newtone can make you a standard gauge set of bass strings that are at full tension tuned to C.
Compliance is basically the bit that accounts for how a guitar actually feels to play, and has loads more factors than the strings, but the maths is calculable if you can account for those factors.
Sounds interesting, no mention of this on their site though, just that their strings are generally lower tension. Any idea of price for these? would quite like a set of 105 or 110 that had a nice tension at C#.
Its custom order, you message them and ask. I just got massive strings for my detuning. 0.085" to 0.145" taperwound.
You can get those off the shelf from D'addario, I have a friend who tunes his 6 string down to below F# :o
I'm a little confused here, I'm aware you can buy huge strings that'll hold nice tension but do these guys make say a .110 string that'll hold the same tension at say C# that one would expect if said string was tuned to E? If so why buy .145 when you could get something lighter gauge that holds the same tension?
Bassist from Bongripper uses .200 as his lowest string on a 4 string RD Artist.
Quote from: moose23 on April 22, 2012, 05:25:37 PM
I'm a little confused here, I'm aware you can buy huge strings that'll hold nice tension but do these guys make say a .110 string that'll hold the same tension at say C# that one would expect if said string was tuned to E? If so why buy .145 when you could get something lighter gauge that holds the same tension?
Bassist from Bongripper uses .200 as his lowest string on a 4 string RD Artist.
I got huge strings because I wanted huge strings. I can do the necessary stuff to make them work on a bass, and the inharmonicity was a potential attendant issue with the thinner gauge strings, so I played it safe. Additionally I am aware how tension is a minor factor in playability compared to compliance. You need to ask them specifics.
Ah so would these thinner gauge strings have a lack of compliance, which is what I usually refer to as tension? Damn semantics and layman's/musician's terms again. You said somewhere you did a law degree right? I think I can see where your love of semantics comes from there.
Having a read of this now: http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm
Quote from: moose23 on April 22, 2012, 06:32:11 PM
You said somewhere you did a law degree right? I think I can see where your love of semantics comes from there.
Having a read of this now: http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm
Ah explains why he's so full of
shit words ;)
Quote from: moose23 on April 22, 2012, 06:32:11 PM
Ah so would these thinner gauge strings have a lack of compliance, which is what I usually refer to as tension? Damn semantics and layman's/musician's terms again. You said somewhere you did a law degree right? I think I can see where your love of semantics comes from there.
Having a read of this now: http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm
Compliance is determined by stuff other than the string size. The concern was to do with inharmonicity, where the vibration rate of the string is affected by factors other than length, mass and tension, such as stiffness, the idea of winding being it adds mass without stiffness when compared with using a thicker unwound string/core. Since the thinner strings would require a stiffer core for the purpose, I figured it would put the intonation off, and it was a big deal with all the drive an funny intervals that are hard to make sound right anyway, whereas a normal core with more windings would be more predictable. If I were doing it again, I' probably not go that way because inharmonicity probably isn't such a big deal considering how shit my intonation is just by ear, and how the messiness is part of the feedback dynamic.
Effect of the law degree is probably more in the skepticism of how guitar stuff is explained. 90% of it on the internet is bullshit.
Edit: Some stuff in the essays section on my mentor's website might be handy too: http://www.edgeguitarservices.co.uk/
Good job I generally use the internet for entertainment purposes.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 22, 2012, 07:46:09 PM
Effect of the law degree is probably more in the skepticism of how guitar stuff is explained. 90% of it on the internet is bullshit.
and yet I got exactly the answer I was looking for, way up there in the thread, I guess that was the 10% before the other 90% kicked in. ;)
Quote from: Chovie D on April 20, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
dont know if this will help you but its what i use when I want to determine the right gauge to use for steel tunings.
standard neck length for steel guitar is 24 inches, same as a standard for guitar.
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm (http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm)
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 22, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 22, 2012, 07:46:09 PM
Effect of the law degree is probably more in the skepticism of how guitar stuff is explained. 90% of it on the internet is bullshit.
and yet I got exactly the answer I was looking for, way up there in the thread, I guess that was the 10% before the other 90% kicked in. ;)
Quote from: Chovie D on April 20, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
dont know if this will help you but its what i use when I want to determine the right gauge to use for steel tunings.
standard neck length for steel guitar is 24 inches, same as a standard for guitar.
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm (http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm)
So you figure for low E, .056 or .058 (recommended gauges from the steel chart) will do the trick on a standard guitar?
I wouldn't go near that gauge for a low E on electric guitar.
I use 56-60 for low E in Standard tuning.
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Quote from: SunnO))) on April 23, 2012, 08:52:55 AM
I use 56-60 for low E in Standard tuning.
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Sounds about right...
...for a squareneck Dobro.
(http://www.12fret.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/cache/9725__530xfloat=none_Dobro_Hound_dog_full_1.jpg)
Quote from: SunnO))) on April 23, 2012, 08:52:55 AM
I use 56-60 for low E in Standard tuning.
:o
Some people use that size for B tuning, 6 or 7 string guitars. That is some serious tension. This inspires me to try like a 70 or so for B. I'm looking for more tightness and heavy metal kill power.
I just like the power and clarity...
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I hear ya. The only thing though is you don't have much string vibration travel with a string that thick. Is it really heavy sounding? What sizes do you use for the other strings? I can't imagine trying bends and what not with a set of 13s in E.
Ive used 70's and 80's tuned to A..they are almost like bass strings and sound really good when your mimicing a bass line.
56 not at all uncommon for my low E's and drop D's
I like 10's or 11's on the top in standard.
Thicker strings are generally richer in harmonic content, that's why some parts sound nicer on the B string, even though they could be played on the E (that's bass for the guitarists out there ;))
Harmonic content aside, all that tension's gotta play hob with a neck, but y'know what?
It's not my guitar. Do whatever you want to it.
Just stuck a 64 on my junior for the low B. It's nice and tight but not ridiculo tight. Trying to get the action as low as possible without any fret buzz. Might go up a tad on the rest of the strings as well. I'm done with the floppy sound.
Those "jazz" sets trip me out. Do people actually use a 13 for high E? I suppose if you aren't bending and have super low action it's okay. I'm using a 13 for my high B but may try a 14.
Are baritone strings generally exactly the same as regular strings only longer?(and obviously thicker) I assume they are wound the same and work fine on non-baritones.
This baritone set seems strange to me. The 26 seems too light and the jump to 44 looks odd. Seems like it should be at least a 30.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2208_981171916)
I'm thinking 14-18-28-39-49or52-64 for B to B
http://www.juststrings.com/electricxlnickelwounddaddarioguitarsinglestrings.html
You may be forgetting scale length. The baritone is 4" longer, you can use thinner strings.
I use those strings. They're perfect...
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Quote from: liquidsmoke on April 30, 2012, 05:20:46 AM
This baritone set seems strange to me. The 26 seems too light and the jump to 44 looks odd. Seems like it should be at least a 30.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2208_981171916)
I'm thinking 14-18-28-39-49or52-64 for B to B
http://www.juststrings.com/electricxlnickelwounddaddarioguitarsinglestrings.html
I've been using those on Gibson's (mainly tuned to B but sometimes A) for a dozen or so years and I love them. Still plenty of tension with the 26 but it's bendable as well.
Quote from: clockwork green on April 30, 2012, 02:13:09 PM
I've been using those on Gibson's (mainly tuned to B but sometimes A) for a dozen or so years and I love them. Still plenty of tension with the 26 but it's bendable as well.
That string does get bent a lot, perhaps it's intentionally a bit lighter in that set.
and I've only mentioned that string set to you about 15 times in the passed year...
Once or twice at least but I've only recently made up my mind to go thicker. It's a bit thicker than what I want so I think I'll be back to constructing custom sets again but it would be easy and cheap for sure.
Try the light baritone strings. .61 top.
These?
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2207_111308144)
A tad too light and almost exactly like these-
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2207_23877818)
Which is more or less what I'm using now but without the 10 of course.
A baritone set somewhere between the light and regular would be just about right.
I'll probably get this
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2207_17136320),
a 64, and a non-wound 18 to replace the 21.
EXACTAMUNDO