guitar through bass cabs

[Angostura]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I was hoping some of you might have experience in this area.

I've been playing guitar with an Ampeg V2 thru a 90s Fender 4x10 bass cab. My sound is the amp pretty much dimed with a Univox Super-Fuzz in the mid scooped position. We tune to B, and It sounds like the apocolypse.

I like the rich low end. I like the fact  that it will handle more wattage (on paper) than I'll ever throw at it.

Will distorted fuzz high end ruin bass speakers? is power handling out the window when running a full range signal into a bass speaker designed for signals under 5k?

It sounds like I'm right at the limit that this cab can handle, even though I'm only running 60 watts through it. A dimed amp with a Superfuzz is a lot to ask from any cab, but with a 300rms rating, this thing shouldn't even be breaking a sweat.

This setup is not loud enough. Our second guitarist runs a 70s 100 watt Marshall half stack and is WAY louder than me. I have a Plush 3000b that I will be switching to when it gets back from the tech. This beast is 150 clean tube watts with 6 6L6s, which will solve my volume problem, but I think it is gonna make that poor cab disintegrate!

I will be adding another 4x10 at some point, and am wondering which cabs and speakers can handle this kind of torture. Maybe I need a 2x15, but I like the punch of 10s...

Thoughts?

[spookstrickland]

Get a Peavey Black Widow cab, it will take it all and scream for more!

[jibberish]

you are quieter than your marshall buddy because, even at same wattage, bass speakers take more power to achieve same volume(lower efficiency).
guitar cab 12's are special efficient midranges. they aren't meant for bass.
bass speakers are meant for bass. bass is the mean frequency.  if bass cant destroy it, it cant be destroyed. highs generally just get rolled off by the physical limitations of the speaker.

I don't think you can hurt a 300WRMS cab full of bass speakers with a 60watt amp playing guitar.

check out normal bass setups that have to compete with 100watt marshall stacks.. it is usually like an ampeg fridge and w/e 300-500+ watts to push the cab.

the bass needs more power than the guitars to achieve same volume on the bass notes. 

[btw, get ready for certain pompous individuals to give you shit about running guitar thru a bass cab. my feeling is that people should try stuff out. that's how crazy things get discovered and also, people learn why maybe they don't want to do certain things better when they experiment for their own sound/rig]

[Angostura]

I prefer the mushy, loose, 'pillowy' low end on the bass cabs to the tight, fast low end of guitar cabs. I end up rolling the bass down a bit to compensate. We also don't plan on having a bass player, so we need to have the lows covered.

maybe I just need to get a fridge? Could I replace the top two 10s with guitar 10s to get some crispness back at hearing level?? Were'nt SVTs designed to be used for anything???

Part of me thinks this pursuit is fruitless, and I need to be shopping 4x12s, but the other part of me says that that if I get it sorted out, I will have a unique, heavy as hell tone.....

[Jake]

Using bass amps for guitar, is the question that tends to surface from time to time here. I've never been one to poo poo using bass cabs in a guitar rig. In fact, I've got a newer Orange 4x12 that was made to be paired with the AD-200, which can be used for either bass or guitar. Sounds great with a baritone.

My sentiment is to go with whatever you think sounds good. If you're set on bass cabs, I might try a 2x15 before an 8x10. A sealed fridge cab can be very tight and focused, and may not introduce many of the frequencies that you're looking for to "be heard" in your band's mix.

[MichaelZodiac]

Get a Peavey Black Widow cab, it will take it all and scream for more!

I have a 410 Peavey Black Widow cab and for some parts I dime my Superfuzz clone into my dimed Acoustic 220. I use a lot of mids in my bass tone (no guitar player) and it never breaks a sweat. Get wheels though.

[giantchris]

The only thing that can get damaged is I believe if you run a guitar with a lot of distortion through a bass cab it can damage the horn.  So if you have a bass cab with a horn make sure the horn is off.  When I don't use my T21 boxes to play I run my 8 string through my Epifani PS15 and it sounds pretty damn awesome.  Use what sounds good.

[jibberish]

OP has several questions rolled together.  I only addressed the efficiency of bass speakers vs guitar speakers. IMO, everyone's tone is their personal business.
so I didn't mention the ampeg fridge as a speaker cab for the op.  I mentioned that for the bass to keep up with a 100w full guitar stack, you would need much more power and more speakers. so the game will be to get more power and more speakers moving air.

yeah maybe I shouldn't have pre-empted, but you know how it gets around here.  I say try everything out. fails are as big of a learning tool as wins, maybe more because they shape the "out of bounds" region better. so I would never discourage anyone's quest for tone.

if I was in the same boat, I would be exploring 15" solutions for tone like jake mentions. 15" speakers have lower natural resonances due to larger mass, so they naturally feel "deeper" and may be floppier, especially when they break in. you may find more efficient guitar 15" speakers that sound exactly like you want  and use less power to get loud like guitar speakers do.

[Angostura]

It all really boils down to which setup is going to be able to handle a palm-muted low B with a bassy Superfuzz into a dimed 150 watt tube head, and not lose it's cool. I do like the bass kinda 'mushy' as opposed to 'tight' though.

So do I add another 4x10 and continue my bass stack o death?

Get a fridge? Something about playing guitar through an 8x10 just appeals to me.

Or get a Peavey 2x15? This and the 4x10 wont fit in my car, so this would be it.

Or scrap the bass thing and get a 4x12? Can't really make a stack with the 4x10 (they just won't stack!).

I think that the addition of the Plush will really make a difference as well. It's been a couple years since I've played it, but I remember it being quite the monster, with truly impressive headroom and volume.

[spookstrickland]

It all really boils down to which setup is going to be able to handle a palm-muted low B with a bassy Superfuzz into a dimed 150 watt tube head, and not lose it's cool. I do like the bass kinda 'mushy' as opposed to 'tight' though.

So do I add another 4x10 and continue my bass stack o death?

Get a fridge? Something about playing guitar through an 8x10 just appeals to me.

Or get a Peavey 2x15? This and the 4x10 wont fit in my car, so this would be it.

Or scrap the bass thing and get a 4x12? Can't really make a stack with the 4x10 (they just won't stack!).

I think that the addition of the Plush will really make a difference as well. It's been a couple years since I've played it, but I remember it being quite the monster, with truly impressive headroom and volume.

Man I love tuck n roll on amp heads what kind of amp is that?

[giantchris]

I also wanted to throw in I have an old Kustom Tuck N Roll 3x15 that sounds AMAZING on guitar and bass.  It's crazy heavy and insane loud though.  It's definitely louder then a fridge.  If you can find a 2x15 or 3x15 one I'd grab one you can usually snag them for 100-250$ or so.

[liquidsmoke]

I would add another 4x10 and ease off the mid-scooping a bit. Half way through a live set I turned off the 'thrash' switch on my distortion pedal and I could immediately hear my rig much better, haven't used it live since. Your tone through bass speakers isn't going to pierce through the air like the other guitar player but the low end power will thicken things up even if it seems kind of subtle during songs.

We don't currently have a bass player so I've been splitting my signal into a bass head and bass 4x10. Last week before practice I had both amps cranked and scooped severely. The tone was thunderous and awesome but it doesn't cut very well, even without a bass player. When I brought the mids back everything was way louder and the bass side still brought the thunder. Mid scooping is a great way to riff on new heavy ideas by yourself though.

[Lumpy]

When I brought the mids back everything was way louder and the bass side still brought the thunder.

[Angostura]

I do dial some mids back on the amp to compensate for the scooped fuzz. It seems to me that as I crank my amp (or any tube amp), that mids become more pronounced as well.

I actually have a Kustom 2x15, but it is in pristine original shape, and I don't think I want to subject it to this kind of abuse.

The amp in question, I wish I could find the matching 2x15:

[liquidsmoke]

I actually have a Kustom 2x15, but it is in pristine original shape, and I don't think I want to subject it to this kind of abuse.

I think you should carefully subject your 2x15 to your kind of abuse. Or sell it and use the money to buy a different 2x15 or another 4x10.

[Mr. Foxen]

Mid knob on most valve amps is cut only because FMV tone stack.

[tombhex]

I've been running my SG into a BAT Quantum Mystic into the following: Ampeg v4 into Marshall Basketweave 412 and Sunn 1200s solid state rackmount into Marshall Jubilee Series 215. I have had some weird, farty tone from the 215 when I ran the guitar into the v4 into the 215, but in using a solid state bass head EQed very carefully to fill in the frequencies I miss most in the absence of a bassist I'm able to get a pretty massive sound. I know what you mean about the pillowy low-end from bass cabs, I like it that way too. It does sound absolutely nuts with the other rig set up to be straightforward guitar tone, though.

[JemDooM]

I play guitar through a 350w solid state bass head through a 500w 412, tuned to A, used to combine it with the 18 or 15 but I don't like the way the speakers pulsate and spew the sound out in big muddy waves rather than a solid continuous sustain, they basically break up the sustain but I did like the way the 18 made the floor shake, the sound is a little brighter and crunchier without them so I'm looking at either a second 412 or an 810 now, I always push the mids slightly and highs considerably for more crunch and definition. I'm always turned up full and the red clip light is constantly on, I read that constantly pushing it like that will kill the speakers but years later the cabs never failed once, I had a guitar 412 a while back and it blew very quickly, whether that was my fault or not I don't know or care. Like others have said it's your own personal journey, experiment, if stuff dies oh well, if it doesn't carry on ps, my 18 did blow once when I lent it out at a gig, the guy was not down tuned and was using an orange guitar head, a friend mentioned it to the guys in the matamp factory and they suggested too much treble could have killed it, again I don't know, that sucked though as it was a custom celestion irreplaceable, I replaced it with an emminence but it was never the same after that

[liquidsmoke]

I play guitar through a 350w solid state bass head

I did until more recently as well with a dirt pedal for the tight sound but I've switch back to guitar tube heads for more dynamic cream. As long as I'm not cranked uber ridiculously loud the tube head clean channels are tight enough.

I also experienced that weird speaker pulsating using my SS bass head but with guitar 12s. Too much low end was causing it. I posted about it here which was a mistake  

SS is crazy stuff.(I probably shouldn't say that)

[mutantcolors]

I have a bass 2x15 which doesn't suck for guitar, but I'm spoiled with a really good guitar 4x12 so I always opt for that. My guitarist in one band runs guitar through a 300w Fender Bassman and an Ampeg Fridge, sounds awesome.

[JemDooM]

My guitarist in one band runs guitar through a 300w Fender Bassman and an Ampeg Fridge, sounds awesome.

That's an awesome set up I'd love a bassman and an 810, oh why the no money's

[Angostura]

After rehearsing a couple of times since posting this question, I have observed the following:

--Putting the mid up on the amp certainly helped.

--It still seems I'm running out of cab before amp headroom. Maybe something (or everything) in this cab is blown, and I don't really care, distortion never hurts...

--Trying to get my tone from the Marshall guitar setup proved futile. Too tight.

--I have to have that loose low end that only a bass cab can offer.

So, the lookout is on for a cheap CL 4x10 to continue the Bass Stack 'o Death. Can anybody think of any out there on the used market to steer clear of, considering the abuse?

[moose23]

Have you tried something like an Orange/Matamp/Emperor style/size cab? Much looser than a Marshall.

[Angostura]

I was just given (FREE!) a  80s Peavey 1x15 with a bad speaker in it:  


Not mine, just a web pic, but mine is the same down to the wheels.

So, I am now in the market for a 8ohm 15". Do I get a bass speaker? guitar speaker? new Black Widow??

Maybe something along these lines to go with my 4x10:
http://www.parts-express.com/celestion-bl15-400x-15-8-ohm-bass-guitar-speaker-400w--294-2460

Suggestions?.....

[liquidsmoke]

For $130 and a little time and patience you can probably find a low end used 4x10 and get a lot more volume than one 96 dB speaker in that 1x15 would provide.