Orange OR Series

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 12:35:43 PM

Quote from: Mr. Foxen on February 11, 2013, 11:33:49 AM
Regardless, Orange amps don't have them. Especially not ones with a mid control.

Sadly you are most likely correct. But, even the active Baxadall would only require three more capacitors. So cost is a non-issue. Which makes it even more sad.

Mr. Foxen · February 11, 2013, 01:29:04 PM

Wouldn't it need a whole other valve to run it due to the active? Or would the tone stack recovery one do it, barely considered tone stack losses since I just fix existing stuff.

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 01:50:16 PM

There is no insertion loss with an active stack. So no recovery stage is needed.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 01:57:31 PM

An orange with an active baxandall would not be a orange persay since they used passive james EQs. Not that it would sound bad but the passive EQ + recovery stage is a lot different then an active EQ with no additional gain stages. When you say crank the passive EQ up you are now getting additional gain and clipping before the phase inverter. Once again there is no mid control for the James EQ. I have tried a bunch of things to mod the EQ but nothing useful. The Shift control makes the 100k resistor which separates the B and T into a rheostat with max value of 500k. It has some adjustment to the mids but not like a bandpass/reject filter does. Could also make a separate mid control of course else where in the circuit.

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 02:15:44 PM

Stop dicking around and read some books. Its not hard to set up a band-pass and a second break-frequency and it works with an active or passive stack.

Baxandall
Baxandall
Baxandall
Baxandall
Baxandall
Baxandall
...There is also a mid-only single control bax-y. I've use it, it sounds great.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 02:23:35 PM

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 02:35:10 PM

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 04:19:45 PM

Alrite you seem pretty confident on this

Here is the EQ out of a Orange or Matamp.

Design a mid control into this that:

1. Boosts Mids

2. Doesn't significantly alter to the sweep of the Bass and Treble controls

3. Doesn't add another gain stage to control the mids.

VOLVO))) · February 11, 2013, 04:45:40 PM

This is my favorite type of dickwagging! IM LEARNING AND BEING AMUSED

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 04:48:51 PM

I don't have to. Some else did. There is also 15 pages of Baxandall fun in there.
Page 274, Chapter 10, Figure 10.19: The Circuit of a Baxandall three-band EQ using one stage only.
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Signal-Audio-Design-Douglas/dp/0240521773/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360618703&sr=8-1&keywords=douglas+self

Want it passive? Change the end stop resistors and ground the feedback.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 04:59:55 PM

You cant see anything in that book. The preview doesnt show anything really.

Why dont u reproduce the scheme and show me it works if you have access to it

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 05:17:45 PM

Quote from: dunwichamps on February 11, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
You cant see anything in that book. The preview doesnt show anything really.

Why dont u reproduce the scheme and show me it works if you have access to it

Why don't I hold your hand the next time you design an amp(probably a little harsh)? It's copyrighted material that I paid for. I have great respect for Mr. Self and own a few of his books. Also he does have some free info on his personal website. http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/ampins.htm

I'd be way down for designing my take on an OR with Mids, but not for frees.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 05:24:48 PM

Ill hold off on a snarky response since it wont get anywhere.

I dont need you to design anything. I am merely interested in the point of whether there is a passive mid control that is able to be incorporated. however I will hold my breathe til I see a scheme using a 12ax7 and simulations showing the output. If you dont wanna reproduce anything, thats fine but I wont believe it much til I see some actual beef.

My overall point is that yes you can definitely make an active baxandall with many bands. I have done that already in SS preamps using op amps. however, what im looking to see is a mid control that can be integrated into the basic Matamp EQ without changing the entire nature of the EQ and thus the amp all driven from 12ax7.

Here is some idea I came up with that uses an mid control in a feedback loop that is all mid boost combined with a james EQ. Mid control stolen from a Burman that Oli showed me today.

Works fairly well with the only drawback being that the driver stage for the mid control uses up a triode but it can also drive the james EQ

However this is kind like taking some mid control and then having a baxandall. Its not exactly what would be ideal where the circuit was built into the baxandall. It sort of colors the amp a bit, not that its bad since I purposely doing that in this design.

Mr. Foxen · February 11, 2013, 05:32:15 PM

In short: Orange amps with a mid control are not trad Oranges. Orange amps have never had Baxandall tone stacks, neither have Matamps (except maybe the newest GT200). Fender style 3 bands are the thing that makes amps into one trick ponys. FullCustom can't back up his claims to understand circuits with demonstrations as well as dunwichamps can and hides behind books only he can see.

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 05:42:21 PM

So we have a world-wide communication network that we can use for 24/7 dick swinging. But a passive tube drive 3 band Baxandall EQ - unpossible! Meh, seem legit.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 05:44:09 PM

i never said impossible I just have not seen a mid control for a james EQ before. Thus why I asked to see something.

Mr. Foxen · February 11, 2013, 05:57:43 PM

Doesn't the tube drive bit make it active, what with it not being passive any more due to active component?

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 06:05:23 PM

Quote from: Mr. Foxen on February 11, 2013, 05:57:43 PM
Doesn't the tube drive bit make it active, what with it not being passive any more due to active component?

An active EQ or Volume control is one that is driven via negative feedback. Passives shunt to ground.
I'll go hide behind my books now...

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: dunwichamps on February 11, 2013, 05:44:09 PM
i never said impossible I just have not seen a mid control for a james EQ before. Thus why I asked to see something.

Yeah, it is a bit of a unicorn in the tube world. But so are sweep-able mid controls. That is possible too but no-one does it.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 06:29:15 PM

Quote from: Mr. Foxen on February 11, 2013, 05:57:43 PM
Doesn't the tube drive bit make it active, what with it not being passive any more due to active component?

If its in some kind of feedback loop like the Ampeg SVT mid control or the mid control on the Burman then its active or likely active. Another tell tale symbol is that the insertion loss is 0. Passive stuff all has some kind of insertion loss in order to be able to cut selectively.

Most commercial amp makers tend to be traditional or in other words they often copy each other. If you picked any random amp, statically its most likely to just be a passive FMV. Thats why I said that its more likely that the new oranges are using FMVs then any more designed EQ such a modded james to get a mid control or a james + another mid control.

FullCustom · February 11, 2013, 06:45:22 PM

Quote from: FullCustom on February 07, 2013, 09:23:21 PM
It'd be nice to know what sort of tone stack they are using before ripping the PCB out of an OR15. The three band Baxandall would be sweet. But I have a feel it's just of the Marshall/Bassman flair. I'd go for a better output transformer before ditching the PC board.

As I said earlier in the thread, most likely of the Marshall/Bassman flair but something better would be sweet. New Orange amps sound like 90's Marshall amps with but slightly better iron. But people like them and they sell.

Mr. Foxen · February 11, 2013, 08:07:12 PM

Having tinkered with the Terror bass and thunderverb, those have Fender style eq from listening to them.

dunwichamps · February 11, 2013, 09:41:58 PM

TV, RV, and AD series amps are FMVs in some shape or form.