need mixer advice

[dogfood]

I'm shopping for a live/home studio application mixing board (and power amps, eq, case, etc.)
I'm looking for used.
I want 12 to 16 inputs, something like that.
I want something as complicated as it gets so that I will know what I'm doing if I get my hands on another mixer.
I've got my eye on an old Sunn power amp.  Will need more than one of course.

Should I go on craigslist and buy an already put together set up? Should I piece everything?
Is there a brand to avoid?  Berhinger?
Who cleans and fixes mixing boards?

What advise have y'all got?

[spookstrickland]

I would recomend a Soundcraft board, they sound really nice and smooth and will not cost a fortune... a lot of people like mackie but they always sound really brittle on the high end to me.

[jibberish]

I have 2  16 channel/4-buss mixers and they both do their job fine.

I have a Mackie for the studio. it is a straight up mixer with 3 sets of aux outs for 3 effects units. bought it used from GC for $300.
it also has nice tone controls and trimpots to smooth any harshness

I bought a behringer from CL for $100. it has a more fucked up routing and its own internal effects, but I was still able to rig 3 sets of stereo effects thru it also.
this is for my outdoor rig


fwiw, I have a tiny behringer mixer too. I like it. it is quiet enough and does its job too.  I got mine because my buddy had one and it was nice.

I would go with the one that is a good deal on CL if I was getting one until I knew what I wanted

edit: I am a Crown and QSC power amp devotee.
I shopped old used 50+ pounders. why? huge transformers=huge current reserve.  I got all 4 of my amps for $150+$20 for 1yr full warranty.
they were like $185ish out the door. the "crown" jewel, is my 1990's era top of the line crown that sold new for $1500. it is now a stereo amp for my cerwin vega's. 300w/ch rms into 8ohms with headroom for days. 

[jibberish]

I was thinking that maybe the handiest thing I have in either of my 2 sound setups is a stereo receiver. I have 2 identical pioneer receivers and they have been hosses and muchly used and abused.

I use mine for line level routing and switching monitoring setups. plus it has 100w/ch for a set of smaller speakers and a bonus tuner to generate sound for testing the system when 1st set up. it is really nice to just select: pc sound, Mackie mixer sound, radio, ext tape player, turntable, spare headphone amp  ....

best buy right down the street routinely has generic like sony or their Chinese offbrand receivers for <$100 and CL always has stereos and stereo speakers.

[dogfood]

I know more of you have some kind of opinion on mixers!?  Lame-o-s

[dogfood]

Man, where to start?!  Ok, so, my girlfriend (soon to be finance)'s daughter's boyfriend (they have been together for quite some time) Richie works in food service.  It sucks.  His band is pretty good when they have their shit together, like all bands.  They've played Vans Warped tour as the local throw in.  He would like to give sound engineering a go.  So I'm picking up a board and some other equipment to give him a fighting chance.  Dude needs out of Chipotle, you know?!  I'm on my way over to to pick up a used set up, board/2 amps/eq/power conditioner/ etc.  wish me luck.


Ritchie's band *warning-not stoner rock- new metal pop punk whatever the kids call it these days*

[Submarine]

Yamaha, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath are all decent.  It's definitely a situation of you get what you pay for.  If you can find a used Midas Venice, go with that as it will be the best sounding option.  To really get into "pro sound"  you really want your channels to have 4 band eq: hi, parametric (sweepable)hi mid, parametric (sweepable) lo mid and bass.  If you need to be running monitors off the console you will want 31 band graphic eqs on each aux send to get the most gain before feedback.  Digital mixers may offer more bang for the buck but you need to move up into the $1500+ range at that point.  Sm57, SM 58 mics will be fine on most applications (especially at the budget level).

[jibberish]

the mackie has sweepable fixed Q mid eq's

sweepable is only 1/2 of what true parametric is.
parametric also includes variable Q along with sweepable

Q is the width of the area affected under the eq curve (keeping everyone on the same page here). a 31 band or also called a 1/3 octave (10 octaves from 20-20khz so 30ish bands) has a Q of 1/3 octave fixed on a set frequency. for a quick visual grab-n-go you cant touch that. you form your snake out of all the sliders and you are done.
the parametric is for space saving and knowing you will be contouring variable-width peaks in some fashion. 

For example: an upper bass honk is almost immune to standard fixed bass and mid. you need to sweep the mid frequency down to center on that honk.  then you adjust the Q width to get the honk and nothing beyond. this is beyond fixed Q sliders.

also you can lay a thin super deep slice onto a "feedy-backy" mic or instrument to damp it's hot frequency. also beyond the ability of a fixed Q eq.

those feedback eliminator eq's are an automatic digital parametric that nails that frequency

So anyway, that makes for an incredibly versatile  eq machine, like a 4 band parametric. that is really all you need because each band can be set to do an entire fixed eq curve

I played with an SAE parametric eq a lot on slow days at the audio warehouse. it was beyond most folks haha, but I fucked with it until I really figured it out.
if anyone wants to play with a parametric eq in digital-land, reaper has at least one in that collection of free effect plug-ins they give you. I have used it already.
it is definitely cool and effective. it may be a 3 band, and don't cross bands just because you can(slide a higher one below a lower one) because it starts sounding like a free digital effect heh.  those low end effects work great if you don't push them to extremes.

[dogfood]

Midas Venice, Check.  Parametric EQ update, check.

So, I get a text that 3 of the channels are not 100%.  I hauled my ass all the way to Willoughby so I still want to see it.  Turns out the dude operates a large sound and power company and he'll fix the channels himself.  His workbench is right there.  No problem.  Talk for an hour with him about his business, boards, speakers, all sorts of crap.  I was much happier knowing I was dealing with someone that knows their shit. 

The set up is 2nd rate equipment and used.  But I can sell it for everything I put in it tomorrow if need be, in case someone joins a cult or gets a real job with no time for music.  I have never purchased guitars or amps or pedals with sell-ability in mind. 

Mackie 1604 VLZ mixing board
Peavey - pv900 power amp
Sonetik - sa425 power amp
ACM Audio - power conditioner
Peavey - Deltafex
DBX 262 compresser
SKB 10 space rack with slant top for mixer
31 band graphic eq

$700

[jibberish]

wow, that is a nice pile of shit you got there.  you have that 31 band eq, you are good.

also, that is the same Mackie I have.  so you have those sweepable mids.  I use the heck out of the tone controls for my synth sounds because some of them are a bit wanting

I would recommend for you to get at least one used lexicon 200 reverb for $100 to hook up to aux send-returns(like from some GC store somewhere online). those are super cheap because the processors that can run the algorithms are finally dirt cheap. these are the same algorithms in the 20 year old $2000 lexicons with the proprietary SPARC chips or wtf they had to use since a Pentium couldn't even come close to providing that horsepower.

it totally blows pedals away for quality sound if you want to use reverbs etc in the studio.
plus then you get to learn another aspect of how a mixer can route signals.

also, if a channel is sounding like ass, take a look at the trimpot at the top. you could be bringing in your signal too hot and crapping out the inputs. that gets real harsh real fast

yeah nice toys chief

[dogfood]

The Peavy deltafex is a verb/delay/chorus/rotary effect but is entry level stuff, definitely not next level.  A review says the delays are nice and the phaser but the rest is run of the mill.

Lexicon verb, check.

[jibberish]

try all that stuff out though.  the mixer can support 3 stereo effects so there is plenty of room to keep the peavey effects even if you add a nicer unit later.   you will be glad you have several when it comes time to lightly verb a vocal but maybe really space out an instrument or load a whole string of effects on one input, w/e

eventide makes really nice studio effects also, and some of those have gotten quite affordable for the same reasons as the lexicons. also harmon corp owns lexicon now so they have big volume Chinese production cost reduction happening too.


my real question is if you have some studio monitors.
if you don't,  my only piece of advice is get something with 6" woofers or bigger. I kind of screwed myself a couple times mixing on small speakers, then when I played it on the big system, it sounded way too bottom heavy.  I think danny g went through that too once upon a time.

I have further bass issues with synths. they can make some off the hook low notes that little speakers can barely play.  then i'm wondering why stuff is dancing on the shelves on big system playbacks

I had to quit using those little speakers. eventually I have to get some decent powered monitors that can imitate 12" woofer bass.