colour haze to sungrazer type scales

[ogion]

hey you blokes, this is my first post so please go easy on me. i been getting into the style of colour haze to sungrazer to earthless type of thing armed with the pentatonic scale and drop c tuning, but lately i think i need to deviate from that scale as i keep falling into the same holes. so, what scale do you guys reckon i should work on next to travel in the same direction as these bands? cheerz.

[mutantcolors]

Heh. Probably not a scale issue as these and 10,000 other bands rock the fuck out of pentatonic more than anything. Nebula didn't need a new scale. You need more abilities methinks, not a new scale.

[Metal and Beer]

I'd tend to agree with MC ^.. a lot of, ahem, "colour" comes from HOW you use that same ol' pentatonic we all use so heavily...(of course incorporating other things is great, too..)  Sometimes just switching to the neck pickup and changing pick attack together can make a big diff to the same old notes, it's the feeling that's key...

[liquidsmoke]

Good points although some of those "wrong" notes can be used very nicely with the blues box.

[eugenicscum]

How about mixing major and minor pentatonics? Dorian sounds very cool too - how about adding the major sixth to your minor pentatonics to brighten things up? Kyuss and Colour Haze use natural minor too, what's it called, Aeolian?

How about adding effects to spice things up? Something like a univibe/dejavibe for that bitching Robin Trower sound.

[bitter]

How about mixing major and minor pentatonics? Dorian sounds very cool too - how about adding the major sixth to your minor pentatonics to brighten things up? Kyuss and Colour Haze use natural minor too, what's it called, Aeolian?

How about adding effects to spice things up? Something like a univibe/dejavibe for that bitching Robin Trower sound.

Yeah, mixing major and minor scales in general is a fun option is a good option.

And I think your referring to the Areola scales, which are tits to play with. 

[giantchris]

If it helps think of Aeolian and Phrygian scales as extended minor pentatonic scales doing that kinda helped me visualize them better on the fretboard.  I also found that my songs got a lot better when I stopped deliberately trying to write whole songs in the same scale/key and just wrote the damn music as I was feeling it. 

[RacerX]

If it helps think of Aeolian and Phrygian scales as extended minor pentatonic scales doing that kinda helped me visualize them better on the fretboard.  I also found that my songs got a lot better when I stopped deliberately trying to write whole songs in the same scale/key and just wrote the damn music as I was feeling it. 

Bingo. When playing, I do not think "scales/notes"; I think "string/fret."

As you say, it is easier to visualize the notes from the other scales as "living between" the blues scale positions.

[Submarine]

You might want to check out the Hungarian Minor - its got a "snake charmer" kind of vibe.  Ritchie Blackmore used it quite a bit.

[mutantcolors]

All good stuff. My main thing was pointing out that your mentioned bands get nearly endless of mileage out of the pentatonic. There is a lot of value in other scales as well but you know...you'll be hitting the same licks just up or down a fret here and there, until you expand that library.

I personally love, LOVE illegal notes in a solo. I guess, honestly, the best thing I ever did was watch this old Marty Friedman video. Stylistically very different from Colour Haze etc but really worth the time. This thing gave me the courage to say "hey, it's my music, I can make up my own fuckin' scale and use any damn wrong note I want."

Again, this is so worth your one hour.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5777562536751428345

[jibberish]

mountain is dorian i think. It feels like C in the chorus, but easily A min blues feel too. solos and fills use the a dorian(5th position w/e), which is a good part of that maj+min mentioned before

i ripped a huge chunk of that song off if you remember heh, to make my "Colour Haze Mountain Ripoff Jam", just so there is no mistake where the genius really came from.

dorian is cool since it is basically all the notes in the scale. leave a few out for pentatonic etc

[Metal and Beer]

Was Greg Ginn the King of the Illegal Note? I used to hate his solos   

[jibberish]

frank zappa had a serious mastery of illegal notes and shifting gears in and out of whole sets of them or assembling phrases etc with illegal notes , and somehow get back to the original zone.

i think i like robert fripp due to his sort of mathlike style and plenty of illegal notes to create the tensions and moods that only he can.

[mutantcolors]

I love Adrian as well. This solo is out there, and I am all about solos being out there. One of the guys who's style simply cannot be imitated.

3:23 has some serious wow factor to me.

[El Zombre]

Just read this a few minutes ago, now regurgitating and mangling a Miles Davis quote: "There's no wrong note, it's the note after that determines whether or not the first one sound right."

Another guy with wrong sounding solos that I like - Vernon Reid of Living Color/Masque/Yohimbe Brothers.

[Lumpy]

Was Greg Ginn the King of the Illegal Note? I used to hate his solos  

It 'aint easy to not hit any "right" notes.

Just read this a few minutes ago, now regurgitating and mangling a Miles Davis quote: "There's no wrong note, it's the note after that determines whether or not the first one sound right."

Keith Levine (PIL) said that if he ever hit a wrong note, he'd repeat it, just to make sure he wasn't onto something good

Everybody's using the same scales. When you know that shit forwards/backwards/sideways, that's when you can come up with interesting riffs. IMO. Also, for rock&roll, "vibe" can trump technical ability any day of the week. You don't have to be a music school grad to play killer riffs.

[mutantcolors]

I recorded maybe my weirdest solo yet today. I'll post it up when I get this thang mixed tomorrow. I don't have any blazing abilities so I use weird to my advantage (not in a Tom Morello/noise bullshit way at least.) That's why I like those Belew leads so much. Weird as shit phrasing but generally just playing notes.

Being a drummer helps with fucking around with timing too, I guess i lucked out on that.

[jibberish]

adrian belew. the strat master.

just short of seeing god, was seeing king crimson with belew and fripp together. holy shit. and tony levin schooled the whole place on bass. jeeezus.   that IS your supergroup.

edit: lol a parker fly....

[mutantcolors]

I watched an hr long talk that precedes that performance. He talks about why he uses the Parker and his rationale is pretty legit. It was purely rationale, which seems like how the dude would make decisions.

Anyway I said I'd throw this up here.
http://psychedelicsexorgan.bandcamp.com/track/fallopian-rainbow

[jibberish]

bandcamp seems stalled this am, will try again later

[eugenicscum]

That was awesome, mutantcolors!

[ogion]

yeah right cool so what i reckon is maybe ill head in the mode direction, like someone said just think about em as notes in between the pentatonic. thats certinally what i was thinkin when i dorrianed. wouldnt mind hearin that mountain inspired jam jibberish man.......

[AgentofOblivion]

Colour Haze:  first of all, use the neck pickup.  If I'm in a rut, I dial in a different sound that I'm used to on my amp and I naturally play different things to take advantage of those new sounds.  Obviously they are bass heavy and cut the gain back a bit.

In terms of note choices, I think the secret to them is not playing single-note type scales, but fingering whole chords and then hammering-on/pulling off accent notes.  Jimi Hendrix does similar stuff on his rhythms where as they tend to turn them into repeatable riffs instead of improvised lines.  I would recommend coming up with a two- or three-chord progression, finding a way to finger them on the middle strings around the 8th to 12th frets, and then practice noodling around with the chords by adding in scale tones.  Arpeggiate and remember that your left thumb is your friend if you want to hold down the bass notes.

[mutantcolors]

That was awesome, mutantcolors!

Thank you. I'm less happy about the timing in that solo a week later. Might redo it. It's the wrong kind of weird.

[ogion]

well bugga me, i think ive just answered my own question and gotten 1 step closer with the phrygian mode. that sounds nice and trippy, especially with a few blues notes chucked in for my own flavor.