12" bass speaker reccomendations?

[James1214]

so I finally want to load up the sunn 2x12 I got from clockwork and want some recommendations as to what I should put in it. I play a Rickenbacker and want to play it both alone, when I need a smaller rig, and paired with my 810, I'd also like the cab to run at 4 ohms.

[VOLVO)))]

400w PA subs. Get it. Fill the cab with insulation.

[Mr. Foxen]

Measurements of the cab, ported or sealed?

[Baxandall]

Are Eminence Delta Pro 12A any good for bass?

[Mr. Foxen]

Everything below 200hz is dependent on the box.

[martha_KH]

Measurements of the cab, ported or sealed?

this.  hard to make a recommendation without knowing the box they are going in.

[James1214]

ill be down at the studio tonight. will take some measurements and pics.

[Hemisaurus]

If it's the LH, don't bother using a box designer of any kind, it can't model it. For a horn you want a powerful motor and a stiff response, though this is a very short horn, something with a fairly low Q would probably work well, Delta yes, Kappa even louder.

That said instruments don't have an even response, so I've often found after all the modelling and everything, it's all BS anyways, and the driver sounds just fine regardless, and then you also have to take into account what you're using to drive it. Don't get 2x400W speakers and then push it with 150W amp. Try and push the speaker with at least 2/3 of the RMS (or continuous) wattage, but no more than 70-90% of the Program wattage.

Don't be scared to use a low wattage speaker if it matches your amp, I've got a couple of old 150W 15"s in one of my cabs, and it rips on most amps.

[Mr. Foxen]

Box modelling programs will model that alignment, just not the free ones. Actually, if it is sealed, Hornresp might.

Don't fuss about watts at all, sensitivity tells you how loud speakers are for given input, and Xmax tells you how much power they'll take without farting.

[James1214]

hemi, it is the 212 LH

insofar as all the technical jargon and calculations.... its all greek to me.

most likely ill be using my ampeg 350 (350 watts RMS @ 4 ohm and 200 @ 8 ohm) to drive it when i'm using a dual rig, and my acoustic 230 ( either 125 or 170 watts @ 4 ohm)  when just using it solo.

[Mr. Foxen]

What is it contributing in the dual rig? I'd anticipate it being a mid strong cab without much if any low end. Might even benefit most from loud middly guitar speakers.

[James1214]

mostly so i can utilize the rick-o-sound from my 4003

[Hemisaurus]

I guess it depends what you classify as mids, I'd say it'll be good on low-mid's 100Hz - 800Hz if it was in a PA, but with the open front drivers, you'll be good to the top end of whatever driver you use. I know it looks like a Lo-Mid cab, but I think Sunn did something weird, like have the flares ported, like those horn flares aren't sealed to the edges of the cab, and there's a port on the inside so the low-end comes out under the flare or something real weird like that. Be a complete bastard to model.

If you're using it for bass, which I'm guessing you are, avoid the guitar speakers, get a couple of 200W (continuous) 12"s at 8 ohm, so you'll have a 4 ohm load, the Delta or the Beta would work, those non exchangeable basket Peavey Lo-whatevers, whatever Pyle or Goldwood partsexpress.com are peddling that handle the power and have a nice big magnet, Carvin do them.

If you want to shave a bit of weight of the cab, think about getting Neodyium speakers, but be warned they are about twice the price.

[James1214]

yeah, im fuckin cheap and relatively strong, so ill get the regular ones.... and whatever i get it will still be way lighter then my 810


this seems like a good fit, im not lookin for hi fi top of the line boutiue shit, just to load into a free cabinet and make use of.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-382

[Hemisaurus]

That's not a bad looking driver, though oddly the next GW up, has a higher sensitivity, normally as you increase power handling you lower the sensitivity of the speaker, hence you usually go for the lowest wattage you can find whilst being safe. In this case you could upgrade without losing level.

[Mr. Foxen]

That's not a bad looking driver, though oddly the next GW up, has a higher sensitivity, normally as you increase power handling you lower the sensitivity of the speaker, hence you usually go for the lowest wattage you can find whilst being safe. In this case you could upgrade without losing level.

2mm xmax says no good for bass, should aim for about 4mm if you want to not be drastically cutting lows at the amp. Thermal power handling and sensitivity aren't directly related, so always skip straight to actually comparing sensitivity. The generalisation only works as you go from midrange drivers to bass drivers, and the top end goes with it, where there is a correlation as heavier voice coils handle more power at the cost of high end sensitivity. Had a quick look for comparison, and if you want to use for bass, Eminence Delta 12LFA is fairly handy, although they arne't very bright, they deal with sealed and vented and have decent excursion. If you want it for the toppy part of Ricosound, guitar drivers will be happy though, that's effectively what I do.

[Hemisaurus]

Thermal power handling? Do you mean power compression? The amount of sensitivity lost due to heating?

I was referring to the construction, not power compression, generally larger motors mean lower efficiency, like in a car, you got a bigger engine, it uses more gas, but of course same as in cars, some engines are tuned better than others and are more efficient despite their size.

You're right the xmax is a tad low, but it's a trade-off, price, power handling, sensitivity. I can't see anything that large that's not twice the price?

[Hemisaurus]

found this http://www.thielesmall.com/database.asp?diam=12&type=0&brand=Select&use=0&feat=0&prod=1&form=1&order=Brand,Model

[jibberish]

i can help y'all out with a 12" woofer IN the car heh.   

regarding the topic tho..i got nothing.

[zachoff]

Those old Sunn cases are generally small for today's bass speakers.  I have an old Traynor 2x15 that I've modeled with Winspeakers over and over and it seems like bass-y guitar speakers are the way to go.  I've settled on the Jensen Mojo 15s.  No idea how they'll sound, but Winspeakers says they'll respond well.  I dunno, man.  It's hard to say w/ bass and those old cabs.  Especially those Sunns because they're shaped weird and port weird and aren't really 'boxes'.

[Mr. Foxen]

Thermal power handling? Do you mean power compression? The amount of sensitivity lost due to heating?

I was referring to the construction, not power compression, generally larger motors mean lower efficiency, like in a car, you got a bigger engine, it uses more gas, but of course same as in cars, some engines are tuned better than others and are more efficient despite their size.

You're right the xmax is a tad low, but it's a trade-off, price, power handling, sensitivity. I can't see anything that large that's not twice the price?

That watts rating is thermal power handling. That's the point where the voice coil fails due to heat in a test rig. So it isn't applicable to anything in practice, thus should be disregarded. Skip straight to the specs that tell you what you actually want to know.

The Sunn boxes were too small for the drivers then, but that was part of their sound, nice drivers now have smaller box requirements, so with some tweaking the cabs can suit them OK, but also be excessively heavy for the purpose. Once you get into them, they tend to all be ported boxes, just with funny shaped ports, just figure the tuning with a tone generator and some rice grains (excursion dip around port tuning), and you can apply the modelling for other drivers. The original speakers would pretty much be guitar drivers by current standards, so using guitar drivers is going to do similar things.