anyone go the pre-amp to power amp route?

justinhedrick · March 30, 2011, 04:48:55 PM

i've been looking to getting a pre-amp to run with my power amp for an easy setup. i've looked at the rocktron gainiac 2 because: it is cheap, has 2 channels (clean/dirty) and gets good reviews. anyone have any experience good or bad? there have to be some older guys that used these back in the 80s/90s, no?

Hemisaurus · March 30, 2011, 06:06:53 PM

I used to tech for a guy did an ADA into a JC120, then he upgraded to the Marshall pre/power system, system worked OK, he did a lot of MIDI settings so he had a patch for each part of each song, and he used to write them down on the setlist.

Unless you're doing a lot of switching about, or think you may need to go from 100W to 1000W without changing your tone, I'd question the point of it?

I have a nice Ashdown bass pre, if anyone's interested.

Lumpy · March 30, 2011, 06:56:16 PM

If you're a bass player, a rack setup seems like you get a lot of watts for the $$$, but in the end I'm not sure if it's any cheaper (once you buy the preamp, road case, and whatever else goes in your rack) not to mention not any smaller or lighter (well maybe lighter with a really modern and expensive power amp).

I really don't see guys with 'amazing tone' playing through this kind of setup (Danny G would cite Doug Pinnick of Kings X) but that may be my own lack of exposure.

I think if you needed a jillion gigawatts, a rack is the way to go. I would rather have 300 tube watts in a conventional bass head. Just my opinion. It's simpler, smaller and sounds better to me.

(I guess this is for guitar? Main reason I could see wanting a rack setup - you want a stereo rig. Other than that...?)

justJon · March 30, 2011, 08:26:28 PM

RacerX may jump in here. He uses (for guitar) a Mesa V-Twin 2-channel tube preamp into his Mesa 50-50 power amp. It's essentially a streo rig, but he doesn't really use it that way. He gets great tone, and we've never worried about not being able to hear him, onstage, or in the audience.

RacerX · March 30, 2011, 08:37:03 PM

As Jon sez, I run a Mesa V-Twin preamp into a Mesa 50/50 power amp.

I run the V-Twin in clean mode and the 50/50 in the 15 watt per side mode. I get sweet power tube breakup that way, plus extra dirt from the pedals. Each side of the power amp goes into a different cab, so it's effectively 2 different amps/cabs.

It's ungodly loud in a small room. Only once have I run it full power. Sound guy kept telling me to turn down further & further until the power tubes weren't smokin', so I finally told him just not to mic me.

That ended up being way too loud for the room, but the tone was back.

Hemisaurus · March 30, 2011, 08:52:40 PM

Quote from: Lumpy on March 30, 2011, 06:56:16 PM
If you're a bass player, a rack setup seems like you get a lot of watts for the $$$, but in the end I'm not sure if it's any cheaper (once you buy the preamp, road case, and whatever else goes in your rack) not to mention not any smaller or lighter (well maybe lighter with a really modern and expensive power amp).

I really don't see guys with 'amazing tone' playing through this kind of setup (Danny G would cite Doug Pinnick of Kings X) but that may be my own lack of exposure.

I think if you needed a jillion gigawatts, a rack is the way to go. I would rather have 300 tube watts in a conventional bass head. Just my opinion. It's simpler, smaller and sounds better to me.

(I guess this is for guitar? Main reason I could see wanting a rack setup - you want a stereo rig. Other than that...?)

Yeah, I'd argue the point over 300W tube watts being lighter and easier an SVT is 85lbs, the SVT-2 is 70lbs, the QSC PLX-II series is like 21lbs, in a Gator case with a preamp it's going to be maybe 30-40lbs total. Plus it's cheaper than $1800 of iron (if you are buying new, and not buying Bugera

) doesn't need re-tubed, and can drown any Ampeg + Fridge.

That said, I got tired dragging my rack around, I ended up dragging a 2U Peavey T-Max, which was about the same weight as my Crown power amp, but had the pre built-in obviously. If I ran more of a pedal board, I could use one of the pedals as a pre and just carry the power amp in a 2U case, did that for a while with a boost pedal. Or get a rack bag for the lighter preamp and rack FX and carry the power amp in the gator case.

But yeah, all in one amps just seem easier. Racks are more unwieldly than a 50W guitar head. If you need stereo, get a Fucking Fucker.

dogfood · March 30, 2011, 10:15:35 PM

I think a rack mount set up would kick psychedelic mother fucking ass! I'd line up a stereo phaser, tremelo, delay, or whatever in front of 2 pre+power+412 each set wide on a stage with some major ping pong and swoooshy motion sickness crap going down! yup that's what I'd do.

Hemisaurus · March 30, 2011, 11:02:38 PM

Quote from: dogfood on March 30, 2011, 10:15:35 PM
I think a rack mount set up would kick psychedelic mother fucking ass! I'd line up a stereo phaser, tremelo, delay, or whatever in front of 2 pre+power+412 each set wide on a stage with some major ping pong and swoooshy motion sickness crap going down! yup that's what I'd do.

I take it back, that is an awesome reason for having a pre / power setup

Now I want an extra power amp, two channels for stereo swooshy and one channel for sub-bass, man that rack is going to be heavier than ever

VOLVO))) · March 31, 2011, 12:23:56 AM

Sunn PB-10 and 1000 watt power amp, two fridges. Ultimate bass rig, for me.

justinhedrick · March 31, 2011, 09:36:18 AM

I was just thinking of getting the rocktron gainiac 2 and using my peavey power amp as an easy rig to transport/set up. for as little as we play anymore, i just want something easy to carry around.

Hemisaurus · March 31, 2011, 09:43:10 AM

You thought about just getting a Sansamp? Not the Bass Driver, but the original one or the GT2?

That way you can stick the Sansamp in your guitar case, or gig bag, and your power amp in a 2U case (unless it's a big ole Peavey) and carry less to the gig. Trust me 4U, 6U and 8U racks are a pain in many ways to carry.

Or of course the Behringer clone.

or if you want to be truly minimal the DOD 250 which was marketed as a Booster / Preamp

justinhedrick · March 31, 2011, 09:47:19 AM

that's a good idea, but i was looking forward to having the 2 channels of the pre. but, maybe this would be a better option. i could just leave this on my pedal board and run it into the power amp . . .

ps - i DO have one of the giant peavey amps!

Hemisaurus · March 31, 2011, 09:54:29 AM

There are twin channel pedals, the Mesa Boogie is one

Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Blue

A lot of the Radial stuff

(I think they even have a triple mode one) Though I'm not sure which of these could be used as a pre.

Or you could run two separate pedals say a DOD 250 and a Sansamp, and an ABY before them. Be like having two single channel guitar rigs.

I,Galactus · March 31, 2011, 10:14:51 AM

That mesa v-twin with no diamond plating is really freaking me out.

They're supposed to look like this:

Didn't somebody in Sandia Man run one of those to a Mesa 50/50?

RacerX · March 31, 2011, 11:16:44 AM

Yep. That's me.

I posted a pic of the 50/50 above. Here's the V-Twin:

Mesa also made a rackmount V-Twin.

LogicalFrank · March 31, 2011, 11:35:37 AM

I run a rack rig for our live drum machine sound. I like it. I use an old BBE bass preamp which has a crossover and I send the highs/lows to different power amps and speakers. I also have a power conditioner in there so I only have to plug one chord into the wall and I'm done. It really simplifies set up since most of the drum rig stays hooked up in the rack case, saving me critical minutes of scampering around nervously on stage.

Another nice thing about the rack rig is that when your power amp breaks, you don't have to take the pre-amp into the shop w/ it.

I,Galactus · March 31, 2011, 12:25:32 PM

Quote from: RacerX on March 31, 2011, 11:16:44 AM
Yep. That's me.

Wow... epic reading comprehension fail on my part.

Do you use the blues/lead mode of the v-twin at all? I've got one and really like the direct to tape/headphones tone, but I never understood having two channels w/ only one EQ.

eddiefive10 · March 31, 2011, 03:31:59 PM

I had a mesa vtwin and abosolutely hated it

justinhedrick · March 31, 2011, 03:47:14 PM

i have a buddy who is going to lend me a hughes and kettner attax pre for awhile. we'll see how it sounds!

justJon · March 31, 2011, 04:05:05 PM

Quote from: eddiefive10 on March 31, 2011, 03:31:59 PM
I had a mesa vtwin and abosolutely hated it

Full disclosure: I play drums, not guitar.
I can see where, as a boost/gain/whatever pedal, it might not have a lot to offer. Used clean, strictly to warm up the signal to feed a tube power amp, i think it rules.

Hemisaurus · March 31, 2011, 04:26:20 PM

Quote from: justinhedrick on March 31, 2011, 03:47:14 PM
i have a buddy who is going to lend me a hughes and kettner attax pre for awhile. we'll see how it sounds!

Hey, I'll convert your Sovtek into a preamp, if you let me keep the extra parts

At a pinch any OD or boost pedal that has about 20dB of gain will work as a preamp, which is quite a lot of them. I think I'll go try my $15 Dano FAB OD as a preamp now.

RacerX · March 31, 2011, 05:35:01 PM

QuoteDo you use the blues/lead mode of the v-twin at all?

Nope. The Blues mode is only semi-useable, and the lead tone is ridiculously overcompressed. I just use the clean mode & the tone controls.

liquidsmoke · September 20, 2011, 09:11:13 PM

Does anybody make a small non-rack power amp? I see those little bass amps sometimes, something like that but for guitar or general purpose without a pre-amp or at least an effects loop in to bypass it.

Lumpy · September 20, 2011, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: liquidsmoke on September 20, 2011, 09:11:13 PM
Does anybody make a small non-rack power amp? I see those little bass amps sometimes, something like that but for guitar or general purpose without a pre-amp or at least an effects loop in to bypass it.

Crate Power Block

what about the Electro Harmonix 44 Magnum

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/electro-harmonix-44-magnum-44w-guitar-power-amplifier

liquidsmoke · September 20, 2011, 09:31:31 PM

Quote from: Lumpy on September 20, 2011, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on September 20, 2011, 09:11:13 PM
Does anybody make a small non-rack power amp? I see those little bass amps sometimes, something like that but for guitar or general purpose without a pre-amp or at least an effects loop in to bypass it.

Crate Power Block

what about the Electro Harmonix 44 Magnum

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/electro-harmonix-44-magnum-44w-guitar-power-amplifier

Whoa, cool thanks. 44 watts might be a bit on the low side but that Crate is 150. That would be the perfect thing to use as a slave although about 3 minutes ago I realized that my newly acquired Randall Century head is an even better slave because it can also function as a backup amp for my Laney if that was ever to take a shit at a gig. It's a lot heavier to carry around but it's tone isn't too bad.