StereO rig help

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 01:34:44 PM

So I'm going to start running two heads with their own cabs for guitar. Never had a stereo rig before. One can will be on one side of the room and the other cab on the opposite side (obviosly). Question. Do you put the heads on their cabs and run instrument cable from your aby box to the heads or both heads on one side and run long speaker cable to other cab? And any other cool tricks you can do with a stereo rig such as pedals to get more of a 2 guitar feel and thickness.

justinhedrick · June 03, 2011, 01:51:12 PM

i used to set both heads on top of one cab, and ran speaker cable to the other one, but now i set them on their own cabs (and have varied my setup so now it isn't steroe, it's parallel).

anyway, a good trick is a short delay to 1 amp to thicken in up. the only way to get a real "2 guitar" sound is to loops/sequence some stuff. but i will say, the really short delay to 1 head with fuzz made it sound massive.

VOLVO))) · June 03, 2011, 01:53:48 PM

I run 'em on each cab.

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 01:59:05 PM

It's probably easier to control with all your heads on one stack, but as Justin said, have a good tonal difference between amps, run one side through a fuzz or something. Delay or chorus can be your friend, there's a lot of stereo chorus's out there, or if you have it one of these.

They do doubling, or chorus, it's all just variations on the same delay effect.

justinhedrick · June 03, 2011, 02:03:57 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 01:59:05 PM
It's probably easier to control with all your heads on one stack, but as Justin said, have a good tonal difference between amps, run one side through a fuzz or something. Delay or chorus can be your friend, there's a lot of stereo chorus's out there, or if you have it one of these.

They do doubling, or chorus, it's all just variations on the same delay effect.

a buddy of mine has one of those. it sounds . . . interesting!

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 02:07:54 PM

I run it as part of a stereo rig, but I don't use it to split the signal

Contrary I guess, but I split the signal at the pitch shifter instead, one goes fuzz, the other goes distortion.

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 02:17:18 PM

For a delay (not to sound stupid) will my carbon copy work or is there a better option for the thick 2 guitar sound? And maybe I have my terms f^cked up. My chain will go guitar> aby> amp a> amp b will my rig be stereo? What is the difference between parallel and stereo? How do you not split your guitar signal to both amps? Thanks for the responses. I am back to square 1 again. Just as I dial in my rig I decide to get another.

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 02:41:29 PM

Better chain example that I may use.

> Supercollider > Phaser > Amp A
Guitar > Area 51 > ABY
> Supercollider > Delay > Looper > Amp B

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 03:34:22 PM

I'm not sure if you can get what you want with the Carbon Copy, I can give you a definite maybe.

To do doubling you want a really short delay time, something between .1 - 20 milliseconds or so, the Carbon Copy doesn't have a rang switch, so it is spec'd (in the MXR manual) as going from 20ms - 600ms, so you may not be able to get a short enough delay.

Of the top of my head I thought the Dano Slapback might be a better choice, but it doesn't allow setting of the delay time, just # of repeats and mix.

What you need is something with a switchable delay range, like a 30ms range, turn the repeats right down, and blend to suit.

It's a grey area, parallel and stereo, because no matter what, no two amps sound identical, so the signal is always going to be stereo, even if you have two amps set the same. I think a rough definition would be.

Parallel -> Two amps, with the same signal going to each amp, that sound the same (often achieved by using a Slave Out on one amp).
Stereo -> Two amps, that sound different (whether by effect before the amp, or using the amp itself)

I wouldn't worry too hard about the definition, just getting it sounding how you like it.

If I could make one suggestion, phasing can sound absolutely awesome in stereo, if you have a stereo phaser (do they make one in stomp form?) I would use that instead of the ABY, if you hear a phase sweeping from one side of the stage to the other it can be pretty damn mind bending

Of course that may fuck up your switching options, I wonder if you can AB from stereo phaser to an ABY box, and then work it that way (sorry to complicate it for you)

That way you can have A being the signal split by the phaser for the onstage swooshing, and B goes to an ABY box so you can switch between each amp, or have both going.

There's the other end of the spectrum, I have a friend just takes one cable from the extra input jack of his amp, to the second amp
kind of like the old Plexi trick, but using two amps instead of two channels, very simple, only requires a patch cord, as long as you have an amp with two inputs

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 04:00:30 PM

Always one for the multipurpose, I came across the Ibanez CF-7

It looks like it would do the side to side swooshing (flanging / phasing / whatever

), also with the speed and depth controls turned all the way down, it should be a plain old delay, suitable for doubling.

I don't have one to play with, so I'm guessing here, using my rackmount Ibanez as an example.

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 04:13:57 PM

I cant find any analog true bypass delays with .1 - 20 ms delay times. Most seem to start at 20 ms and go up. Any finds would be appreciated. Im not totally against the idea of a digital but would rather analog.

justinhedrick · June 03, 2011, 04:28:15 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 04:00:30 PM
Always one for the multipurpose, I came across the Ibanez CF-7

It looks like it would do the side to side swooshing (flanging / phasing / whatever ), also with the speed and depth controls turned all the way down, it should be a plain old delay, suitable for doubling.

I don't have one to play with, so I'm guessing here, using my rackmount Ibanez as an example.

i have one of those. it DOES NOT do the side to side swooshing. but with the knobs turned to 0 and the delay time up, it does do a nice (albeit very short) delay.

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 04:29:35 PM

actually has a doubling setting.

Hemisaurus · June 03, 2011, 04:36:39 PM

Quote from: justinhedrick on June 03, 2011, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 04:00:30 PM
Always one for the multipurpose, I came across the Ibanez CF-7

It looks like it would do the side to side swooshing (flanging / phasing / whatever ), also with the speed and depth controls turned all the way down, it should be a plain old delay, suitable for doubling.

I don't have one to play with, so I'm guessing here, using my rackmount Ibanez as an example.

i have one of those. it DOES NOT do the side to side swooshing. but with the knobs turned to 0 and the delay time up, it does do a nice (albeit very short) delay.

Ah, the Ibanez faux-stereo, with one output 180 degrees out of phase with the other. If only it was a true inverse output, one goes down as the other comes up

justinhedrick · June 03, 2011, 04:43:18 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: justinhedrick on June 03, 2011, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 04:00:30 PM
Always one for the multipurpose, I came across the Ibanez CF-7

It looks like it would do the side to side swooshing (flanging / phasing / whatever ), also with the speed and depth controls turned all the way down, it should be a plain old delay, suitable for doubling.

I don't have one to play with, so I'm guessing here, using my rackmount Ibanez as an example.

i have one of those. it DOES NOT do the side to side swooshing. but with the knobs turned to 0 and the delay time up, it does do a nice (albeit very short) delay.
Ah, the Ibanez faux-stereo, with one output 180 degrees out of phase with the other. If only it was a true inverse output, one goes down as the other comes up

indeed. do you remember the green ibanez delay pedal from the 80s that had down modulation? a buddy of mine had 2 once and it was CRAZY. they both broke, and ibanez doesn't service them anymore. bummer.

but yes, it is "faux stereo". it's kind of annoying, really. i never much used it to split my signal because even in bypass it seemed like it did weird shit to it.

RacerX · June 03, 2011, 04:51:09 PM

Mebbe build this?

http://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Audio/Pro%20Audio/Installations/5mS%20Delay%20Unit.pdf

Or something similar?

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 05:09:03 PM

So I forgot to mention that my looper is an akai headrush which also has digital delay like 0 to whatever and tape echo simulator. I was just messing with it and I can definitely get a double guitar sound out of it. I guess I probably have all the tools to make a very full insane sounding stereo rig. Now I just have to wait for my other amp to show up or fix my enforcer and use it for now. Pretty stoked as we have a show coming up that is expected to have 1,000+ people there. I want to melt faces and as peoples faces are melting i want them to question how there was only one guitar player. If they had only spent time in the jam room they would know.

zachoff · June 03, 2011, 05:16:31 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 03, 2011, 03:34:22 PM

There's the other end of the spectrum, I have a friend just takes one cable from the extra input jack of his amp, to the second amp
kind of like the old Plexi trick, but using two amps instead of two channels, very simple, only requires a patch cord, as long as you have an amp with two inputs

Could do that too... Old Ampeg V4s have the dual channel setup. Rad.

justinhedrick · June 03, 2011, 05:30:43 PM

Quote from: ROWDYBEER on June 03, 2011, 05:09:03 PM
So I forgot to mention that my looper is an akai headrush which also has digital delay like 0 to whatever and tape echo simulator. I was just messing with it and I can definitely get a double guitar sound out of it. I guess I probably have all the tools to make a very full insane sounding stereo rig. Now I just have to wait for my other amp to show up or fix my enforcer and use it for now. Pretty stoked as we have a show coming up that is expected to have 1,000+ people there. I want to melt faces and as peoples faces are melting i want them to question how there was only one guitar player. If they had only spent time in the jam room they would know.

oh hey! i have one of those too (the v.1 that is silver, not the cool v.2 that is blue). anyway, if you turn both the fine and long delay times (i don't have it in front of me so i don't remember the exact names) down all the way in the digital position, that makes some really good double-y guitar sounds.

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 07:02:32 PM

I have the ver 2 blue aka headrushi. It is the coolest pedal I have ever had. The shit you can do with it is endless. Highly recommended. Really cool for fucking around at home and I will probably use it in a band setting and live.

Lumpy · June 03, 2011, 07:53:57 PM

Are you sure you want a delay?? I would guess you want to offset the amps sounds a little (delay the signal) but that's different than a delay (echo). A lot of things can work, to make the amps sound distinct from each other... a little bit of chorus (on one side only) is a good place to start, slow speed, and shallow (so you get some additional depth, but don't sound like Ratt or whatever).

A digital delay/analog delay will just make a mess of things, unless you keep it turned off (a lot). For just a little slap-back echo, try the Danelectro FAB echo (like 15 bucks, and only does super short delay. Good pedal! Sounds like your amp is in a tiled room). But chorus is probably a better place to start. You just wanna offset the attack by a millisecond, almost imperceptible, like two guitars playing together (but playing together tight, not sloppy). To me, that seems like a mild, slow chorus on one side. Some type of modulation effect. A real delay will give you mush. Carbon Copy would be overkill, and no need to spend that much.

IMO

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 08:24:10 PM

What chorus do you suggest?

inductorguitars · June 03, 2011, 08:45:13 PM

If you have the cash...

A good doubleing pedal would be the El Capistan.

http://www.strymon.net/products/elcapistan/

ROWDYBEER · June 03, 2011, 09:13:15 PM

I think I'm heading down the path of two different sounding amps with a very short delay on one of the amps so it gives it more of that two guitar sound and thickness. So I'm not really looking for a doubling effect in a pedal.

Lumpy · June 03, 2011, 11:21:21 PM

I would try to maybe borrow some different types of pedals to try them out (a chorus, a reverb, a slap back delay etc) just so you can try some different flavors out. If you want to buy something cheap, I've heard that the (again...) Danelectro FAB Chorus is good (and 15 dollars). I don't have their chorus but I do have that Echo (slap back delay). Danelectro does make some good stuff.

You want to keep the chorus speed all the way down (or most of the way down) so it doesn't sound like 'movement' but just adds a little depth, and a tiny offset in attack. Too much and it will sound like 80s hair metal- it should be subtle.

I'm not saying this will nail the sound that's in your head - I'm saying its something to try.