I want to know what would the correct scales would be for playing a I-bV chord vamp like system of the Universe? I'm thinking maybe the locrian scale? I know other scales may sound good but I want to know what some music theologist would tell me.
Dong?
Quote from: spookstrickland on February 14, 2014, 03:21:52 PM
I want to know what would the correct scales would be for playing a I-bV chord vamp like system of the Universe? I'm thinking maybe the locrian scale? I know other scales may sound good but I want to know what some music theologist would tell me.
You are heinously misusing the term "theologist" here.
Blues scale.
Vamp?
Sabbath definitely added some darker notes to the blues box.
Flatted fifs
Augmented 4th or flatted 5th chord = "Devil's Tritone."
You sure you wanna mess with that, Spuke? You might just burn for all eternity...
Quote from: BrianDamage on February 14, 2014, 03:32:11 PM
Blues scale.
Blues scale, kind of works but what scale would some one like List or Berlioz have used for a chord progression like that. The more technical the better.
Thanks
As I was saying, because the Devil's Tritone lives in the hexatonic "blues scale," that is, indeed, what yer looking for.
Quote from: RacerX on February 14, 2014, 07:10:37 PM
As I was saying, because the Devil's Tritone lives in the hexatonic "blues scale," that is, indeed, what yer looking for.
Hexatonic, thanks, that's what I was looking for.
Yup the blues scale is just the pentatonic scale with the flat fifth added which makes it hexatonic.
Minor pentatonic I should say.
Around this time of year a lot of folks use the minor punxsutanic scale, minor because he saw his shadow and we need the dark notes to express our dismay about the longer winter. You don't even have to be part of the punx scene.
the fuck is 'system of the Universe'?
Quote from: the diddler on February 16, 2014, 08:08:00 AM
the fuck is 'system of the Universe'?
my bad should have been symptom.
Symptom of a downs.
Quote from: RAGER on February 16, 2014, 08:03:27 PM
Symptom of a downs.
That could be cool, A cover band that plays Sabbath Songs in the style of Armenian Folk music.
idk if this will help or not, but look up JS Bach's well tempered Klavier music. this is one of his least complex and most famous sets of compositions.
I mention this because he was one of the first and still one of the best ever at creating wicked chord progressions and walking notes through chords.
you might get some inspiration for getting through a sticky bridge or something that is stumping you.
just youtube prelude #1 or bouree(yes same one tull covered) as starters. you probably have heard prelude #1 at xmas time. they put ave maria over top of it.
symptoms of a downs is hilarious. I wish I thought of that first.
even tho rager was being bad. haha.
Bach? I can't think of a Bach piece offhand that even uses the "Devil's Tritone."
He'd be better off checking out Stravinsky, Wagner, Hagen or even Luddy Von—they used this interval quite a bit.
no doubt, there are way more creepier composers than bach. I was thinking of how to hit spook up with piano oriented music easiest.
that preflude #1 is pure arpeggiated chords, every measure played the same pattern, just change a few notes. it is just a cool thing to watch how the chords change. and even tho it is in the key of c, which is all the white keys on a piano, he ends up using all 5 black keys along the way, and it sounds great.
I cant really assume he can read notes either, but this piece you could work your way through. plus I can id chords pretty easily if I know the key of th epiece, so I could help.
spook could take well tempered clavier pieces apart since they are simpler songs. ez2c what he doing. most classical composers blow me away at the intricacy of their compositions.
anyway, that's where I was coming from thinking of how to get spook headed into looking into the classical guys.
when I was a little kid, my mom played rite of spring along with her other classical music. I was very fascinated by that piece. it wasn't romantic snooze music like the bulk of that she listened to. it was wild and energized. it caught my attention.
still toccata and fugue in d minor is a wild ride, especially performed on a big cathedral organ like it is supposed to be played. so he has essence of creepy here and there.
edit: I went to look for the song to link, and lo and behold "learn how to play prelude #1" video haha perfect
edit: I wont go nuts linking all kinds of stuff but WOW all the cool standard classical pieces are in ez2 learn piano lesson format. canon in D, nmoonlight sonata, what I saw so far..
a person could seriously learn keys with these videos.
Quote from: RacerX on February 21, 2014, 11:28:12 AM
Bach? I can't think of a Bach piece offhand that even uses the "Devil's Tritone."
He'd be better off checking out Stravinsky, Wagner, Hagen or even Luddy Von—they used this interval quite a bit.
That's a good idea, lots of scary intervals in there
Quote from: jibberish on February 21, 2014, 01:27:08 PM
no doubt, there are way more creepier composers than bach. I was thinking of how to hit spook up with piano oriented music easiest.
that preflude #1 is pure arpeggiated chords, every measure played the same pattern, just change a few notes. it is just a cool thing to watch how the chords change. and even tho it is in the key of c, which is all the white keys on a piano, he ends up using all 5 black keys along the way, and it sounds great.
I cant really assume he can read notes either, but this piece you could work your way through. plus I can id chords pretty easily if I know the key of th epiece, so I could help.
spook could take well tempered clavier pieces apart since they are simpler songs. ez2c what he doing. most classical composers blow me away at the intricacy of their compositions.
anyway, that's where I was coming from thinking of how to get spook headed into looking into the classical guys.
when I was a little kid, my mom played rite of spring along with her other classical music. I was very fascinated by that piece. it wasn't romantic snooze music like the bulk of that she listened to. it was wild and energized. it caught my attention.
still toccata and fugue in d minor is a wild ride, especially performed on a big cathedral organ like it is supposed to be played. so he has essence of creepy here and there.
edit: I went to look for the song to link, and lo and behold "learn how to play prelude #1" video haha perfect
edit: I wont go nuts linking all kinds of stuff but WOW all the cool standard classical pieces are in ez2 learn piano lesson format. canon in D, nmoonlight sonata, what I saw so far..
a person could seriously learn keys with these videos.
Thanks, I like Bach, I'll go back and give it a listen.
there are actually 2 creepy chords.
y'all have talked about the flatted 5th minor. this puts 2 minor triads together. this chord is really called a diminished
in bach's key of C the NATURAL diminished is B+D+F. I forget what a major scale is called in the 8 scales forms, but it includes this diminished
the c natural minor is a scale that rather than goes 2-2-1-2-2-2-1, goes 2-1-2-2-2-1-2
so cmin is C-D-Eflat-F-G-A-Bflat. there is no naturally occurring diminished in here.
to get the snake charmer scale, you flat the 6th 2-1-2-2-1-3-2 then D-F-Aflat become the diminished within the scale
the other possibly more unnerving chord than the diminished is the augmented. this is a pure occidental where you SHARP the 5th so now you have 2 major triads
so augmented=sharp5 major chord=2 major triads
diminished=flat 5 minor chord=2 minor triads
this chord is played on an ascending row of frets like 1 2 3 4 on the e a d g strings
the other is played on the reverse 4 3 2 1 on the e a d g strings
both are creepy
and btw, racer, this little simplest and by far the most well known of bach pieces has that diminished chord right in the middle of it. I chose this because by the end bach used all 5 black keys too. (I cheated, I already know how to play this song) and actually virtually all of bach's pieces go through the naturally occurring dim somewhere.
here is an awesome one you probably never heard since it is loaded with creepy stuff: toccata and fugue in Dminor. super super famous piece. you should check it out. fucking amazing especially on a cathedral organ. wait i'll link a very cool version. check out around the 7min onward mark bach slays all
the problem with examples like this, is that this is spook's thread and i'm trying to give him some info he actually can use. this song is intimidating as fuck, so as killer as it is to listen to, other than a "feel" for bach's dark sound, there isn't much else to glean from it. at least that's what i'm thinking
one more thing about diminished chords: 4 minor triads fit into an octave. there are really only 3 diminished chords, they just keep repeating their 4 notes
the C oriented one is C-Eflat-F#-A
the C# oriented one is C#-E-G-A#
and the last, D is D-F-Aflat-B
they can be inverted to any of the 4 notes as the root and it is still the same
also, I am a big fan of the dorian mode. that one seems like you get the best of both worlds of minor and major in that one. it actually is shaped like the pentatonic with more notes packed in heh, more reason as to why I like it since I have a great feel for the pentatonic blues boxes already and this stays pretty much in line
also it rules for sweep picking sequences since there are a lot of notes packed close.
AND less unused notes means less clinkers you can hit haha
jeesus this toccata and fugue is punishing.....on 3rd go around so far. fuckin a, I love this piece of music. bach had such mad skillz.
oops ended, ok 4rth time for the gipper....
edit: ahhhhh. I think this will be the demo piece for when I fire up that crown 750w/ch beast. stuff on the shelves is going be rockin to the bass in this tune
You mentioned the Dorian mode, and it made me think of Iommi's solo in Planet Caravan. The song is a vamp between E minor and D major. Iommi plays the solo in E dorian, and mixes it up with some E minor blues scale also. I think it sounds killer and is one of my all time favorite guitar solos. Its a little jazzy in its phrasing, and may not be too "doomy," but I think it fits the mood of the song.
Quote from: jibberish on February 22, 2014, 08:15:20 AM
there are actually 2 creepy chords.
y'all have talked about the flatted 5th minor. this puts 2 minor triads together. this chord is really called a diminished
in bach's key of C the NATURAL diminished is B+D+F. I forget what a major scale is called in the 8 scales forms, but it includes this diminished
the c natural minor is a scale that rather than goes 2-2-1-2-2-2-1, goes 2-1-2-2-2-1-2
so cmin is C-D-Eflat-F-G-A-Bflat. there is no naturally occurring diminished in here.
to get the snake charmer scale, you flat the 6th 2-1-2-2-1-3-2 then D-F-Aflat become the diminished within the scale
the other possibly more unnerving chord than the diminished is the augmented. this is a pure occidental where you SHARP the 5th so now you have 2 major triads
so augmented=sharp5 major chord=2 major triads
diminished=flat 5 minor chord=2 minor triads
this chord is played on an ascending row of frets like 1 2 3 4 on the e a d g strings
the other is played on the reverse 4 3 2 1 on the e a d g strings
both are creepy
and btw, racer, this little simplest and by far the most well known of bach pieces has that diminished chord right in the middle of it. I chose this because by the end bach used all 5 black keys too. (I cheated, I already know how to play this song) and actually virtually all of bach's pieces go through the naturally occurring dim somewhere.
here is an awesome one you probably never heard since it is loaded with creepy stuff: toccata and fugue in Dminor. super super famous piece. you should check it out. fucking amazing especially on a cathedral organ. wait i'll link a very cool version. check out around the 7min onward mark bach slays all
the problem with examples like this, is that this is spook's thread and i'm trying to give him some info he actually can use. this song is intimidating as fuck, so as killer as it is to listen to, other than a "feel" for bach's dark sound, there isn't much else to glean from it. at least that's what i'm thinking
one more thing about diminished chords: 4 minor triads fit into an octave. there are really only 3 diminished chords, they just keep repeating their 4 notes
the C oriented one is C-Eflat-F#-A
the C# oriented one is C#-E-G-A#
and the last, D is D-F-Aflat-B
they can be inverted to any of the 4 notes as the root and it is still the same
When I move to Clevo I will stab you in the face just because of this post. :P
dinger, I think they use that d-e thing on the s/t and vol4 also, or some close version of it. iommi really does jam blues jams for the most part, just throws little extra stuff in now and then. always seemed like when jamming along to some songs the e box worked great and then you shift a hair to the d stuff, but still use most of the same notes no problem
I have no problem with this as the e minor is just like g major which is only one note different from d major(c# in d major c natural in g major) then you get to use all those notes all around d and c any way you want. chromatic runs are cool, especially when all the notes actually sort of belong
edit: maybe I should make a guitar video about this so you can save a trip and stab me in the kidneys too while you are here.
but I will use the 900 pound gorilla known as gravity on you. when I get done smoking you out you will be calling the couch daddy.
I will make you drink a porter followed by an IPA, OUT OF THE SAME GLASS!!!1!!! (er pardon my dutch)
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edit: I have been thinking about this, what you are looking for. actually dinger gave the global framework for what Sabbath does that you are looking for. of anyone I know of, he would know.
when they go between the Em and the d maj, this makes it legal to use c# in a riff that also has e and g, which walks you right back into em.
that c# e g is a diminished chord
so I bet a hard bass note on D would sound sick as fuck followed by those 3 notes arpeggiated over top. the half step notes clash , then you slide back into the comfy smooth sounds of pure em.
probably really studying those specific jams would open the door.
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walking notes. I love playing snippets of songs with walking notes. that technique can run you through an amazing chordprogression with only 1 note changing.
first walking note example: time in a bottle. that whole dmin chord where you just walk th ed on down, awesome
-the beginning of megadeth's hangar 18 ?17(mental block ) fuck the numbers, the chord progression is as slick any other I have seen
-stairway to heaven, the 1st riff, the d string walks all the way down fromn w/e 8th fret. I love that so much. that was so awesome to come up with that
-outro to hotel California. that's a neato little stroll down the neck too. very cool. otherwise fuck the eagles squared. snoozefest.
-Sabbath snowblind has like 3 cool little chord progressions. I like the ones that use a d7th form all over the neck. ya spook learn snowblind including the solos. perfect. there are d/c jams progressions. ya. this one would help I bet.
-look through the sheet music pdf online to that bach prelude or find a tab version, even better, but check out the middle where he starts in C but then hits creepy gear and runs through a cool sequence of chords. note how he almost always leaves a couple notes stuck from the chord before. and when he does it right, he can put anything pretty much in a phrase and coherently walk you back to the root at the end, leaving the whole phrase satisfied. I totally marvel at that mad skill.
then experiment., take a standard like d minor chord and just walk one of the notes around and see what you get. work your way through all th echord forms and all the individual strings. you will find tons of cool little combos that way
next, sort of sit in the blues box and move those notes one at a time. some are nasty-cool, and some just sound bad.
maybe combining what iommi actually did and all the things you got comfy with in the scales you like could do it for you.
and I will step out of this thread, except I will eventually link my "black math" song which was intentionally creepy and sort of humorus at the same time. im still figuring out its final form but enough is there. I actually use what I was babbling about before. all those creepy chord forms. so that might help too.