Scale Help for Doom Vamp

[spookstrickland]

I want to know what would the correct scales would be for playing a I-bV chord vamp like system of the Universe?  I'm thinking maybe the locrian scale?  I know other scales may sound good but I want to know what some music theologist would tell me.

[RAGER]

Dong?

[RacerX]

I want to know what would the correct scales would be for playing a I-bV chord vamp like system of the Universe?  I'm thinking maybe the locrian scale?  I know other scales may sound good but I want to know what some music theologist would tell me.

You are heinously misusing the term "theologist" here.

[BrianDamage]

Blues scale.

[liquidsmoke]

Vamp?

Sabbath definitely added some darker notes to the blues box.

[VOLVO)))]

Flatted fifs

[RacerX]

Augmented 4th or flatted 5th chord = "Devil's Tritone."

You sure you wanna mess with that, Spuke? You might just burn for all eternity...

[spookstrickland]

Blues scale.

Blues scale, kind of works but what scale would some one like List or Berlioz have used for a chord progression like that.  The more  technical the better.

Thanks

[RacerX]

As I was saying, because the Devil's Tritone lives in the hexatonic "blues scale," that is, indeed, what yer looking for.

[spookstrickland]

As I was saying, because the Devil's Tritone lives in the hexatonic "blues scale," that is, indeed, what yer looking for.

Hexatonic, thanks, that's what I was looking for.

[BrianDamage]

Yup the blues scale is just the pentatonic scale with the flat fifth added which makes it hexatonic.

[BrianDamage]

Minor pentatonic I should say.

[liquidsmoke]

Around this time of year a lot of folks use the minor punxsutanic scale, minor because he saw his shadow and we need the dark notes to express our dismay about the longer winter. You don't even have to be part of the punx scene.

[the diddler]

the fuck is 'system of the Universe'?

[spookstrickland]

the fuck is 'system of the Universe'?

my bad should have been symptom.

[RAGER]

Symptom of a downs.

[spookstrickland]

Symptom of a downs.

That could be cool, A cover band that plays Sabbath Songs in the style of Armenian Folk music.

[jibberish]

idk if this will help or not, but look up JS Bach's well tempered Klavier music. this is one of his least complex and most famous sets of compositions.

I mention this because he was one of the first and still one of the best ever at creating wicked chord progressions and walking notes through chords.
you might get some inspiration for getting through a sticky bridge or something that is stumping you.
just youtube prelude #1 or bouree(yes same one tull covered) as starters. you probably have heard prelude #1 at xmas time. they put ave maria over top of it.

symptoms of a downs is hilarious. I wish I thought of that first.
even tho rager was being bad. haha.

[RacerX]

Bach? I can't think of a Bach piece offhand that even uses the "Devil's Tritone."

He'd be better off checking out Stravinsky, Wagner, Hagen or even Luddy Von—they used this interval quite a bit.

[jibberish]

no doubt, there are way more creepier composers than bach.  I was thinking of how to hit spook up with piano oriented music easiest.

that preflude #1 is pure arpeggiated chords, every measure played the same pattern, just change a few notes. it is just a cool thing to watch how the chords change. and even tho it is in the key of c, which is all the white keys on a piano, he ends up using all 5 black keys along the way, and it sounds great.

I cant really assume he can read notes either, but this piece you could work your way through. plus I can id chords pretty easily if I know the key of th epiece, so I could help.
spook could take well tempered clavier pieces apart since they are simpler songs. ez2c what he doing. most classical composers blow me away at the intricacy of their compositions.

anyway, that's where I was coming from thinking of how to get spook headed into looking into the classical guys.

when I was a little kid, my mom played rite of spring along with her other classical music. I was very fascinated by that piece. it wasn't romantic snooze music like the bulk of that she listened to. it was wild and energized. it caught my attention.
still toccata and fugue in d minor is a wild ride, especially performed on a big cathedral organ like it is supposed to be played. so he has essence of creepy here and there.

edit: I went to look for the song to link, and lo and behold "learn how to play prelude #1" video haha perfect

edit: I wont go nuts linking all kinds of stuff but WOW all the cool standard classical pieces are in ez2 learn piano lesson format. canon in D, nmoonlight sonata, what I saw so far..
a person could seriously learn keys with these videos.

[spookstrickland]

Bach? I can't think of a Bach piece offhand that even uses the "Devil's Tritone."

He'd be better off checking out Stravinsky, Wagner, Hagen or even Luddy Von—they used this interval quite a bit.

That's a good idea, lots of scary intervals in there

no doubt, there are way more creepier composers than bach.  I was thinking of how to hit spook up with piano oriented music easiest.

that preflude #1 is pure arpeggiated chords, every measure played the same pattern, just change a few notes. it is just a cool thing to watch how the chords change. and even tho it is in the key of c, which is all the white keys on a piano, he ends up using all 5 black keys along the way, and it sounds great.

I cant really assume he can read notes either, but this piece you could work your way through. plus I can id chords pretty easily if I know the key of th epiece, so I could help.
spook could take well tempered clavier pieces apart since they are simpler songs. ez2c what he doing. most classical composers blow me away at the intricacy of their compositions.

anyway, that's where I was coming from thinking of how to get spook headed into looking into the classical guys.

when I was a little kid, my mom played rite of spring along with her other classical music. I was very fascinated by that piece. it wasn't romantic snooze music like the bulk of that she listened to. it was wild and energized. it caught my attention.
still toccata and fugue in d minor is a wild ride, especially performed on a big cathedral organ like it is supposed to be played. so he has essence of creepy here and there.

edit: I went to look for the song to link, and lo and behold "learn how to play prelude #1" video haha perfect

edit: I wont go nuts linking all kinds of stuff but WOW all the cool standard classical pieces are in ez2 learn piano lesson format. canon in D, nmoonlight sonata, what I saw so far..
a person could seriously learn keys with these videos.

Thanks, I like Bach, I'll go back and give it a listen.

[jibberish]

there are actually 2 creepy chords.
y'all have talked about the flatted 5th minor. this puts 2 minor triads together. this chord is really called a diminished
in bach's key of C the NATURAL diminished is  B+D+F.   I forget what a major scale is called in the 8 scales forms, but it includes this diminished

the c natural minor is a scale that rather than goes 2-2-1-2-2-2-1, goes 2-1-2-2-2-1-2

so cmin is C-D-Eflat-F-G-A-Bflat. there is no naturally occurring diminished in here.
to get the snake charmer scale, you flat the 6th 2-1-2-2-1-3-2 then D-F-Aflat become the diminished within the scale

the other possibly more unnerving chord than the diminished is the augmented. this is a pure occidental where you SHARP the 5th so now you have 2 major triads
so augmented=sharp5 major chord=2 major triads
diminished=flat 5 minor chord=2 minor triads

this chord is played on an ascending row of frets like 1 2 3 4 on the e a d g strings
the other is played on the reverse 4 3 2 1 on the e a d g strings

both are creepy

and btw, racer, this little simplest and by far the most well known of bach pieces has that diminished chord right in the middle of it. I chose this because by the end bach used all 5 black keys too. (I cheated, I already know how to play this song)  and actually virtually all of bach's pieces go through the naturally occurring dim somewhere. 

here is an awesome one you probably never heard since it is loaded with creepy stuff: toccata and fugue in Dminor. super super famous piece. you should check it out. fucking amazing especially on a cathedral organ. wait i'll link a very cool version. check out around the 7min onward mark bach slays all

the problem with examples like this, is that this is spook's thread and i'm trying to give him some info he actually can use. this song is intimidating as fuck, so as killer as it is to listen to, other than a "feel" for bach's dark sound, there isn't much else to glean from it. at least that's what i'm thinking


one more thing about diminished chords: 4 minor triads fit into an octave. there are really only 3 diminished chords, they just keep repeating their 4 notes

the C oriented one is C-Eflat-F#-A
the C# oriented one is C#-E-G-A#
and the last, D is D-F-Aflat-B

they can be inverted to any of the 4 notes as the root and it is still the same

[jibberish]

also, I am a big fan of the dorian mode. that one seems like you get the best of both worlds of minor and major in that one. it actually is shaped like the pentatonic with more notes packed in heh, more reason as to why I like it since I have a great feel for the pentatonic blues boxes already and this stays pretty much in line
also it rules for sweep picking sequences since there are a lot of notes packed close.

AND less unused notes means less clinkers you can hit haha


jeesus this toccata and fugue is punishing.....on 3rd go around so far. fuckin a, I love this piece of music.  bach had such mad skillz.
oops ended, ok 4rth time for the gipper....

edit: ahhhhh. I think this will be the demo piece for when I fire up that crown 750w/ch beast. stuff on the shelves is going be rockin to the bass in this tune

[Dave J]

You mentioned the Dorian mode, and it made me think of Iommi's solo in Planet Caravan.  The song is a vamp between E minor and D major.  Iommi plays the solo in E dorian, and mixes it up with some E minor blues scale also.  I think it sounds killer and is one of my all time favorite guitar solos. Its a little jazzy in its phrasing, and may not be too "doomy," but I think it fits the mood of the song.

[dogfood]

there are actually 2 creepy chords.
y'all have talked about the flatted 5th minor. this puts 2 minor triads together. this chord is really called a diminished
in bach's key of C the NATURAL diminished is  B+D+F.   I forget what a major scale is called in the 8 scales forms, but it includes this diminished

the c natural minor is a scale that rather than goes 2-2-1-2-2-2-1, goes 2-1-2-2-2-1-2

so cmin is C-D-Eflat-F-G-A-Bflat. there is no naturally occurring diminished in here.
to get the snake charmer scale, you flat the 6th 2-1-2-2-1-3-2 then D-F-Aflat become the diminished within the scale

the other possibly more unnerving chord than the diminished is the augmented. this is a pure occidental where you SHARP the 5th so now you have 2 major triads
so augmented=sharp5 major chord=2 major triads
diminished=flat 5 minor chord=2 minor triads

this chord is played on an ascending row of frets like 1 2 3 4 on the e a d g strings
the other is played on the reverse 4 3 2 1 on the e a d g strings

both are creepy

and btw, racer, this little simplest and by far the most well known of bach pieces has that diminished chord right in the middle of it. I chose this because by the end bach used all 5 black keys too. (I cheated, I already know how to play this song)  and actually virtually all of bach's pieces go through the naturally occurring dim somewhere. 

here is an awesome one you probably never heard since it is loaded with creepy stuff: toccata and fugue in Dminor. super super famous piece. you should check it out. fucking amazing especially on a cathedral organ. wait i'll link a very cool version. check out around the 7min onward mark bach slays all

the problem with examples like this, is that this is spook's thread and i'm trying to give him some info he actually can use. this song is intimidating as fuck, so as killer as it is to listen to, other than a "feel" for bach's dark sound, there isn't much else to glean from it. at least that's what i'm thinking


one more thing about diminished chords: 4 minor triads fit into an octave. there are really only 3 diminished chords, they just keep repeating their 4 notes

the C oriented one is C-Eflat-F#-A
the C# oriented one is C#-E-G-A#
and the last, D is D-F-Aflat-B

they can be inverted to any of the 4 notes as the root and it is still the same

When I move to Clevo I will stab you in the face just because of this post.