No love for orange amps? Recommend something else?

[sanovine]

I notice from searching and surfing around on the forum that there isn't much love for orange amps here on this site. However, most of the rest of the internet is recommending orange amps for stoner rock. Without wanting to stir up possible flamewars, could anyone give me a quick summary of why the orange amps are getting put down here?

I'm thinking of buying a new amp and have been looking at demos of the orange products. Just wondering what the major alternatives might be? I like bands such as Karma To Burn, The Sword, Sasquatch, Elder, Spirit Caravan, Windhand... something that'd be flexible enough for those.

My band is in its infancy, and gigging is pretty far in the future. I play a lot at home in an apartment, which means I got to limit the volume, a lot. Low wattage and something I can put into an attenuator seems very attractive, but I'd like to be able to open it up to small gig size someday.

Right now I have a line6 DT25 which covers the low volume end of it, but I'm not convinced of the tone, I dislike fiddling with all the options, and I'm unsure how loud it'll go (probably plenty). I got a micro terror and like the simplicity and it sounds alright. Maybe I shouldn't trade in the stuff I currently have? I dunno..

I'd love to hear your recommendations!

[RAGER]

I think what you're reading is the comparison of new Orange products to the Original amps.  The 2 don't have much in common other than the color.  many of the people here are either unwilling to or are unable to justify the amount of money being charged for the new stuff as well as the old gear.  I personally own a '72 Or120.  It cost me some coin but that was what I wanted.  It does exactly what I would want an orange to do. Is it my favorite amp? nope.  But it is a loud as fuck crushing beast.

Is there a "Stoner Rock Amp"?  Nope.  Make due with what you have. If you don't have a lot of cash, get a VTM120 and a good fuzz pedal and you'll be set.  All can be had for about $500 or less.  Fuck it, find a VT-22.  That'll do it

[sanovine]

Does that mean that the new stuff just doesn't sound as good? Or that its too expensive for what it does?
They seem to get quite positive reviews.

[liquidsmoke]

I think the new Oranges sound fine but it's not the sound I want and yeah they are very expensive.

My roommate has an old Peavey 5150 and if you crank the distortion and the volume it's MEGA Spirit Caravan to my ears when it breaks up especially if you blend in some neck pickup.

If you're on a budget check out the sleeper amps thread.

[AgentofOblivion]

I agree with the "use what you have" sentiment.  If you're in your apartment or whatever, for fuck sake don't buy an Orange half stack or something.  If you have a lot of money to burn and find the journey to your "perfect tone" an enjoyable hobby, then by all means go for it.  But if you just want usable equipment that will work in your bedroom and on stage in little bars and venues, practice getting usable sounds out of the equipment you have.  The sound you like in your bedroom is not going to work in the context of the full band most likely and it will take time learning that even though it sounds like ass by itself, that's what you need in the band.  You can get a tube fender amp or something for around $300 and get a decent overdrive and call it a day.  I assure you that no one will know the difference in a venue when they have 3 other instruments blasting their ear drums.  And you'll be glad you're not having to carry a 100lb orange 4x12.  

[Jake]

Better or worse? It all depends on what you want an amp to do. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that the clear majority of people around here use a fuzz/OD/disto pedal to overdrive their amps. When that be the case, vintage big-headroom Oranges seem to fit the bill better. Personally, I like a good amount of go-to gain within the amplifier, so a new Orange suits me better.

[sanovine]

Not really sure what I want to be honest. Figuring that out is part of the fun. I'm just starting to research.

If you're in your apartment or whatever, for fuck sake don't buy an Orange half stack or something.

I shall try to remember this advice. It sounds wise.

[giantchris]

If you want something pretty good and don't want to commit a lot of cash if you can find a Crate GX130C it's the same amp as a Ampeg VH140C and you can usually pull one for $100-$200 bucks.  Nice thing about solid state is you can get nice distortion at any volume and it's ultra reliable.  That and what I've found around where I live at least a full stack is a waste of time because no soundman I've played with in a smaller club has let me or my guitarist turn up past like 3 with one.  If I were you I'd get something like this that's cheap and save up for something nice when you guys are gigging and ready to record. 

http://hypnocron.bandcamp.com/track/nebula  <---Friend of mine's project he recorded the guitar and bass with one.

[sanovine]

I'm looking to invest in something good, that'll last a long time. I've currently got the DT25 modelling amp for home practice, and I've been figuring out a bit of what I like about tones with it. In the next few months we'll be back in the rehearsal room and so I want to commit to getting a rig that's really meaty and bowel shaking. I love that near-mud bottom end that sounds like the amp is melting. I trust you know what I mean. Whether it's a fuzz pedal or amp doing it I'm not really sure of yet. I also don't have much experience with playing heavy riffs at loud volumes so it's kinda hard to know what I'm after.

[jibberish]

if it's good enough for Madonna to play dimebag songs on, it's good enough for me.

I want to build a rockerverb 50 pre-amp section someday-minus the verb section. they have like 4 12ax7's in a row feeding each other and other neato stuff in there.
those are actually quite complicated amps from checking out circuit diagrams

[liquidsmoke]

I love that near-mud bottom end that sounds like the amp is melting. I trust you know what I mean. Whether it's a fuzz pedal or amp doing it I'm not really sure of yet. I also don't have much experience with playing heavy riffs at loud volumes so it's kinda hard to know what I'm after.

With a fuzz into a tube amp cranked up each is contributing to that melty sweet bottom end. You're going to have a fucking blast dude! You may go through a ton of pedals and several amps before finding the right combo. Old Marshalls, Fender blackface, Ampeg V4, old Peaveys, Laneys, read lots of reviews and watch youtube videos. If you can transport a 4x12 cab that is a good place to start. Get loud speakers that can handle a lot of watts if you have a choice.

[Ombrenuit]

I'm with Rager. You don't need to spend a lot on an amp. And Orange is very expensive.

My 2 cents:

15w tube amps are still too loud for an apartment. You can play at 1% volume but that basically defeats the purpose of having a tube amp - to crank it!

Stick with the micro terror for apartment practice. Get a tube amp for band practice / live use.

Choose wattage based on headroom, not volume. Doubling wattage only gives you 3db increase. You can get volume from more speakers / more efficient speakers. Do you want a lot of amp distortion (low watt, breaks up earlier) or will your distortion come primarily from pedals (high wattage)? 120 watt amps are super clean amps.

An 18w with a 4x12 is (barely) enough for bar gigs without being mic'd (my current set up). The cab cost more than the amp. It can always be mic'd if played outdoors.

The more knobs on an amp, the more ways to fuck up your sound.

For cheap amps check out fender bassman clones. There are a slew of builders making them for under $500. Old peavey's are a favorite on this forum and cheap to come by.

Check out Hovercraft amps too.

[liquidsmoke]

For cheap amps check out fender bassman clones. There are a slew of builders making them for under $500.

Huh, good to know.

[sanovine]

Do you want a lot of amp distortion (low watt, breaks up earlier) or will your distortion come primarily from pedals (high wattage)? 120 watt amps are super clean amps.

I don't really know the answer to this. I thought the general point of the orange was that it'd sound pretty sweet without needing much else. I like the idea of simplicity and having it hard to get a bad tone, and I got to say I really enjoy the micro terror, which got me thinking about bigger oranges. But I dunno. If I look at fuzzes then there's just an overwhelming amount of options and combinations. I'd rather have one decent tone and concentrate on the riffs to be honest. I don't intend to play cleans. A single channel would probably do.

[RacerX]

For cheap amps check out fender bassman clones. There are a slew of builders making them for under $500.

Huh, good to know.

The Bassman is exactly what you don't want in an amp. Lotsa breakup compared to Twins.

[Ombrenuit]

For cheap amps check out fender bassman clones. There are a slew of builders making them for under $500.

Huh, good to know.

I retract that. Around $600 now: http://www.littledawgamps.com/prices/. The circuits are relatively simple. A small builder might do you one for $500.

As RacerX said, lotsa breakup...that might be a good or bad thing.

[Ombrenuit]

Do you want a lot of amp distortion (low watt, breaks up earlier) or will your distortion come primarily from pedals (high wattage)? 120 watt amps are super clean amps.

I don't really know the answer to this. I thought the general point of the orange was that it'd sound pretty sweet without needing much else. I like the idea of simplicity and having it hard to get a bad tone, and I got to say I really enjoy the micro terror, which got me thinking about bigger oranges. But I dunno. If I look at fuzzes then there's just an overwhelming amount of options and combinations. I'd rather have one decent tone and concentrate on the riffs to be honest. I don't intend to play cleans. A single channel would probably do.

Hovercraft Dwarvenaut 20. Kylesa was playing one last year and it killed live.

[Lip]

Currently, I have a jcm800 - I love it. I also liked my Peavey Butcher a lot. Loved my Matamp, loved my Sunn Model T RI, in fact - quite possibly the only guitar head I have had that I just did not like was a Carvin X100b - but others on here like em... For the money - I think a Traynor YBA 1A is the best amp you can get for your dollar. I would advise finding a decent practice amp for your apt - and a reg amp for the rehearsal space... but that's just me. There are deff more knowledgeable folks on here.

[RAGER]

I'd love to have a Bassman again.  Not sure why that is the amp you're not supposed to want.

[RAGER]

Would love to have a YBA-1A too

[everdrone]

I play more sludge and less doom, and dig my Orange thunderverb 50 rig   I recommend it for that purpose!

[liquidsmoke]

I'd love to have a Bassman again.  Not sure why that is the amp you're not supposed to want.

The Bassman is exactly what you don't want in an amp. Lotsa breakup compared to Twins.

I meant good to know for when I want crazy tube breakup for more psychedelic and sludgy applications, not for my current metal band.

[dogfood]

I will stand behind the X100b, period the end.

[The Riffer]

Really want an x100b.

Ina  way, this thread really is part b of the image thread. Seems alot of cats pay the extra for Orange just to get the 'club" status or fit an image. Nothing against Orange at all,just an observation.

[RAGER]

Doom/sludge/stonerrocker/golfer/club member

IMAGE!  I got all the brand names.