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Author Topic: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan  (Read 4982 times)

Stoney Pete

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Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« on: March 11, 2014, 12:35:58 PM »

Are there more people like me who think Born Again is one of the very best Sabbath Albums? I never understood why this is one of the lesser known albums. It should be right up there with the first six Sabbath albums.... but actually it's in a league of its own, since it is so different from all the other albums...

It has often been bashed for its horrible production and quite rightly: the lead guitar pierces you ears, the drums sound flat, the album lacks mids... Bill Ward quit the band halfway during recording, so Sabbath got a replacement, but the drumming on the album just is flat and doesn't by far reach the quality of for example Symptom of the Universe (where Bill Ward drums like an insane genius).

But despite all these drawbacks, the album is still amazing. Largely no doub because of Ian Gillan's incredible singing, that guy is amazing... I've never been a huge Deep Purple fan, but on Born Again Gillan sounds amazing.... what a voice!

Besides that, the songs are just awesome, even though because of Gillan the band sounds a bit like a mix of Sabbath and DP -- Deep Sabbath or Black Purple...

There is so much groove on this album! And the soundscapes are really, really beautiful... they really add atmosphere to the album...

Geezer Butler is in particular good form on this album... despite the bad overall production, his bass sounds amazing, it really roars at some passages...

And the lyrics are beautiful: Thrashed, Disturbing the Priest, Zero the Hero, Born Agan -- all these songs have amazing lyrics....

There is not a bad song on this album -- only the last song, Keep it warm, is of a lesser quality, but it still grooves like a motherfucker...

I first heard this album in '85 or '86 when I was 15 or 16 and I was immediately fascinated by the dark and melancholic atmosphere on this album... and to this day I am still fascinated by it....

Too bad they didn't make more albums with Gillan... for me he was the best Sabbath singer, better than Ozzy and Dio.... Gillan's voice adds a special mystique to Sabbath... I love it!

Please let me know what you think about it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxHngyFAbLw




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black

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 02:15:58 PM »

I think you've brought up some interesting and valid points there Stoney-P. But for me, I guess I'm just old fashioned, as I like my Black Sabbath with the original guys (although i still dig the Dio stuff) and Ian Gillian will always be (imo) best fronting Deep Purple (and of course as Jesus on the original Jesus Christ Superstar album). That's just what my old ears "think" of when I hear either of those bands mentioned and of course is nothing more than my opinion. But yeah, thanks for the post. It really did get me thinking.
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MichaelZodiac

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 02:31:07 PM »

I actually really like the Born Again album. Talked with Dylan Carlson from Earth about Iommi's guitartones on this album, you can hear how the soundscapes and the guitartone of the title-track influenced Carlson's tone last couple of Earth albums.
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Nolan

mortlock

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 07:26:51 PM »

i have always been a huge fan of born again and mob rules. its almost as if those albums should NOT be called black sabbath albums. i think the fact that they are sabbath albums makes more people not like them because of a bias that might not be there if they were albums from a different band. on their own they are brilliant records. as black sabbath records go, they are still brilliant records. i just cant help but feel that they take unnecessary criticism because they are 'black sabbath' albums giving people a pre-conceived notion of what they were 'supposed' to sound like.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 07:31:43 PM by mortlock »
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Stoney Pete

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 03:43:09 AM »

I actually really like the Born Again album. Talked with Dylan Carlson from Earth about Iommi's guitartones on this album, you can hear how the soundscapes and the guitartone of the title-track influenced Carlson's tone last couple of Earth albums.

Interesting... thanks for the tip... I especially love the timbre of Iommi's guitar on the song Born Again... there is so much melancholy there... I'm certainly gonna check out those Earth albums...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 04:13:13 AM by Stoney Pete »
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Stoney Pete

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 03:48:45 AM »

i think the fact that they are sabbath albums makes more people not like them because of a bias that might not be there if they were albums from a different band. on their own they are brilliant records.

I agree... Most people listen to those records with a preconceived of how Sabbath should sound like and then they are disappointed because they sound so different...
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black

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 11:56:36 AM »

^^That would be me, minus the disappointment part.^
Much like mortlock, I consider them their own deal as opposed to calling them Sabbath or Deep Purple albums (even though that's what they are). Hats off to morty for being able to articulate what was on my (feeble) mind.
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RAGER

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 12:43:05 PM »

I absolutely love Born Again.  One of my all times favorite records period.  It is such a good record that it just didn't matter that it wasn't Ozzy.  I remember the day I bought it clear over on the East side of Portland at Tower records.  I was with one of my older sisters and it was record shopping day.  Her treat.  The cover kind of weirded her out even though my hand me downs of Rush,Sabbath, Zep, and other records came from her and my other sisters.
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Stoney Pete

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 02:33:13 AM »

Obviously I love this album primarily because of its music... but I also love it because of all the anecdotes surrrounding it... there is probably no Sabbath album about which so many stories can be told... Here are some nice ones:

Here is a nicely understating Gillan telling some stories about the Stonehenge stage decor (which turned out way too big becausse of a mix up of feet and meters), the dwarf that fell off, Gillan's trouble with remembering the lyrics and the smoke machine making his lyrics invisible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppR838nSNX8

Also: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/life_imitates_comedy_spinal_tap_uncannily_anticipated_black_sabbaths

Here are the background stories on the songs Thrashed and Disturbing the Priest: "During recording, Gillan returned from a local pub one evening, took a car belonging to drummer Ward, and commenced racing around a go-cart track located on the Manor Studio property. He crashed the car, which burst into flames after he escaped uninjured. He wrote the album's opening track "Trashed" about the experience. The song "Disturbing the Priest" was written after a rehearsal space set up by Iommi in a small building near a local church received noise complaints from the resident priests." (Wikipedia)

Legend has it that the song Digital Bitch is about Sharon Arden, later to be Sharon Osbourne.

And then of course there is the hilarious album cover...

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RAGER

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 10:02:10 AM »

Yes. The album cover is comedy gold.....  Er.....what?

I was gonna mention all the rowdy back stories but forgot. Also the place they were staying was Richard Branson's.
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mortlock

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 04:45:22 PM »

i loved the cover so much i did a ms paint version. i also did miles davis bitches brew and st vitus born too late..
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gritty_fingers

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 04:54:36 PM »

Awesome!^^^
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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 06:36:52 PM »

I wrote a long review for this on another site, but I can't be arsed to link it.
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Stoney Pete

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2014, 02:50:51 AM »

i loved the cover so much i did a ms paint version. i also did miles davis bitches brew and st vitus born too late..
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Dude that's like adding injury to insult...

Personally however I think this album cover is briljant... I love it... I also loved the inner sleeve with the lyrics on it in red ink... And the band member photo's on the back of the outer sleeve... when I was 15 or so they looked so rough and weathered and especially extremely hairy to me... notably Gillan who looked like some Comanche indian or something... adding to the charisma of his voice...

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 03:06:55 AM by Stoney Pete »
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RacerX

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 02:01:40 PM »

Comanche Indian, eh?

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Ian Gillan looks more like he spent a few weeks drinking hard liquor in a tanning booth.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 02:03:29 PM by RacerX »
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mortlock

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2014, 10:32:31 PM »

cmon dood..I took some artistic liberties with that painting. its supposed to be avant garde..
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Jor el

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2014, 11:14:36 PM »


I plan to record a Zero The Hero / Her Black Wings mash-up.

Just need to dig up a bass player & drummer.
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BrianDamage

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Re:
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 07:04:51 PM »

Bass player with digital recording capabilities right here.
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Instant Dan

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 07:37:44 PM »

I like the guitar tone of Born Again more so than on mob rules.
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Submarine

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2014, 11:55:34 PM »

This album came out about the same time I discovered weed.  So they are cosmically linked in my mind.  I will love this album forever.
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GeeZa

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2014, 10:53:50 PM »

It's a very underrated record isn't it?


"Inebriation!". Got to laugh, Gillan was a apparently a complete beast back then. Dat guitar sound on the chorus. Blimey.

Edit:

I think one of the things that happens after a certain time is that you go back and reappraise the non-Ozzy Sabbath. Honestly, you may have not liked it much at the time, or even completely ignored it, but there's some killer tunes on those records. You just have to get past that initial mental block.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 10:57:57 PM by GeeZa »
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L. Ron

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2014, 07:24:47 PM »

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RacerX

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 02:10:05 PM »

Look like Gillan's been Disturbing the Priest again...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/16/phoenix-priest-shooting/10592619/

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fuzz4life

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2014, 02:37:29 PM »

my first sab album i owned at 14 years old this album opened the door to worlds i had not discoverd always have a special place in my collection
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JLKOWAL

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Re: Born Again -- Black Sabbath with Ian Gillan
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2018, 09:03:33 AM »

Definitely a unique and an experimental experience of an album but I will not go so far to say it's one of their best. It did have some strong points but I felt real weird and odd with this album when first released. Ian just really didn't belong with that stable, especially having DIO for some previous monumental albums. He belongs to Deep Purple and that's where he stays until they all drop.

Supposedly Bill Ward doesn't remember anything he did with BS in the 80's because he was so burnt and out of it. ;)
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