Waiting for Superman

[Crutch]

I finally saw this documentary and I'm glad I did. Considering all this shit going down with public sector unions it's a particularly useful insight because this film is not kind at all to the Teachers Union and rightfully so. It actually surprises me that it didn't get at least a nomination considering all the hype around it when it was released.

[Lumpy]

I haven't seen this yet - I heard it basically bashes the teachers' union - but now there's speculation that DC schools under Michelle Rhee (she's one of the main subjects in the movie) may have cheated to get their improved test results. Schools were flagged by McGraw-Hill because of a high amount of erasures/wrong-to-right corrections.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-03-28-1Aschooltesting28_CV_N.htm

[HORNS]

It RIGHTFULLY bashes the teachers union. In Chicago today nearly half a million kids aren't in school because their teacher's union called a strike the night before the first day of school. Meanwhile - they are the highest paid teachers in America. They make 62% more than the average Chicago family.


Before anyone even considers having an opinion on this news event, they should see this movie. Hence the bump.

[Lumpy]

Chicago teachers are well-paid? That's awesome. 62%... are you going to say "that's more than double"? 

Teachers make 62% more than the average family, or they make more than 62% of the average families? If you post "facts" then maybe you should post a link, otherwise it looks like you are making shit up (again).

Just do a Google search on "Debunking Waiting for Superman" or "Fact checking Waiting for Superman" and start reading. The movie is full of holes and fake facts, to support corporate takeover of the public schools.

Also, it's amusing to see HORNS pulled in two directions... he hates (Chicago Mayor) Rahm Emanuel, but he also hates teachers' unions. Who should he root for?

[Lumpy]

BTW, Chicago teachers are not striking over their salary. Horns gets it wrong, as usual.

Also, if teaching is such an easy job with a sweet salary and lush benefits, then why is the attrition rate among new teachers so high?

[HORNS]

Just do a Google search on "Debunking Waiting for Superman" or "Fact checking Waiting for Superman" and start reading. The movie is full of holes and fake facts, to support corporate takeover of the public schools.

Oh! I can play that binary thinking game too.

The featured commentators on "Waiting For Superman" are TEACHERS. So obviously Lumpy is against teachers because he is against what they say.
Got any more comments on a movie you didn't see?


Three comments in and you already look stupid. Keep it going!



EDIT:

So if "Waiting For Superman" is bogus, that means that the film maker was dishonest. Wow.

Was he dishonest when he made his previous movie?









Lets google "debunking An Inconvenient Truth" too! You've gotta be on board for that!

Its the same old thing with you - you want the world to work a certain way, and when it doesn't...

SHOOT THE MESSENGER!



"That liberal union member who made that movie about corrupt and ineffective teachers unions is scamming us. Its a conspriacy!!"


No it isn't. You are uneducated on the issue. Thanks for playing.

[HORNS]

BTW, Chicago teachers are not striking over their salary. Horns gets it wrong, as usual.

"Emanuel's administration rescinded 4 percent raises for teachers. He then asked the union to reopen its contract and accept 2 percent pay raises in exchange for lengthening the school day for students by 90 minutes. The union refused."

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-teachers-strike-talks-fail-030846765.html

If you post "facts" then maybe you should post a link, otherwise it looks like you are making shit up (again).

Link posted. (don't hyperventilate over it)

Also, if teaching is such an easy job with a sweet salary and lush benefits, then why is the attrition rate among new teachers so high?

^You know whats fun? When you don't have the foggiest fucking idea about an issue you pretend to know about. Teacher attrition rates are high because of the union policies of seniority.

Let me explain it to you so your tiny mind can understand. (Read slowly):

New teachers get sent to shitty districts and problem schools. They get overcrowded classrooms and impoverished areas where education needs just a moderate boost to compensate. Those areas don't get that - they get the most inexperienced teachers. Because teachers who have been teaching the longest get to choose where they teach and they invariable choose to teach at the richest and best performing schools. Schools with a smaller teacher to student ratio. So their job is easier and their results are better. Easier job and better results for them.
The dirty end of the stick for poor(and black and brown) kids.

[HORNS]

Luckily for our mentally deficient board member Lumpy, "Waiting For Superman" is on Youtube.
Furthermore, there is no "debunking" the facts in this segment on the teachers union.

skip to 4:47 for the beginning of the teachers union discussion

^if you have kids, this will make you mad.

[Lumpy]

Chicago teachers aren't striking over salary.

"Recognizing the Board's fiscal woes, we are not far apart on compensation,"  the Chicago Teachers Union said in a news release. "However, we are apart on benefits."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/what-are-key-issues-in-chicago-public-school-strike/?replytocom=1385187#respond

Horns hates teachers because they make more money than he does (outrageous!). News flash for Horns: teachers contribute to society, and your job does not. You make garbage so kids have something to watch in-between TV commercials.

[HORNS]

Chicago teachers aren't striking over salary.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/what-are-key-issues-in-chicago-public-school-strike/?replytocom=1385187#respond

Your CNN article. Third paragraph.

"Below, we break down the key issues that are keeping the teachers out of the classroom, what the teachers are asking for and what the schools are willing to offer.

One of the key issues is salaries and benefits for teachers and their families."


Thanks for posting that helpful link douchebag!
Next time, you should read it:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/what-are-key-issues-in-chicago-public-school-strike/?replytocom=1385187#respond

Try to slide your finger along the words as you read to help your comprehension.  


You don't look dumb. Really.

[Lumpy]

Maybe Horns can switch careers for something that pays better, like being a schoolteacher.





LOL, obviously I'm just kidding. First of all, Horns is not smart enough to be a schoolteacher. Not by a country mile. (For example, an increase of 60% is not "more than double". You should have covered Percentages in 3rd grade. To increase more than double, it would have to be over 100% increase).

Secondly, you can't be a school teacher if you fly into a sputtering rage whenever you disagree with somebody.

Schoolteachers are absolutely vital to society. And also, they're doing a job that Horns couldn't possibly do. But he's too dumb to give them the respect they deserve.

**Comedy bonus** In one breath, Horns complains about the high costs of public education, and in the next breath he complains that new teachers don't want to teach in schools with crumbling infrastructure and overcrowded classrooms. 

[HORNS]

Ssshhh. You sound desperate.

People are going to come into this thread, watch the clip of the film(and then the whole thing) and realize how damaging the teachers union is.
If thats upsetting to you, then why make all of your stupid posts and help them think you're a douchebag too?

[HORNS]

In one breath, Horns complains about the high costs of public education,

I'll buy you ten records from ATH if you show me where I complained about "the high cost of public education".

^This is where you get excited... and then realize that you made that up without even realizing it. I never said anything of the kind.


What else did you imagine that I said Lumpy? You must go to bed thinking about me.

[Lumpy]

Um yeah, I have to admit I barely skim over your bullshit posts, because you're a troll. Not gonna go digging through your posts a 2nd time, just to prove that you were complaining about the high costs of education when you complained about teachers' salaries.   I simply can't keep up with fact-checking all the stupid garbage you post.

ZOMFG, some teachers badmouthed the Teachers's Unions. Clutch the pearls!!!! It's a terrible movie produced by a guy who produced a terrible Al Gore movie, so I'm sure that means a lot  

[lftwng4]

Horns, if I understand you correctly, you're upset that the new teachers have to "pay their dues" so to speak, by teaching in the shitty schools.  And the teachers that have seniority get to pick what districts they teach in, so of course, they pick the better schools, because of less problem students, higher grades, etc?

Is there a problem with that?
Isn't that how most jobs work?
I dunno, I'm no fan of unions by any stretch, and certainly the teachers union is filled with people who use it for their own ends and in ways it was never intended.  I have no quarrel with you if that is your perspective, but isn't that true of any large organization?  Why the hard on against the teachers?  
I think what you're missing out on here is that for the teachers to be graded on their performance of the students isn't taking into account that the students(mainly the ones in the underachieving schools, inner city schools, etc) do not have the support at home that the "better" performing schools have.  They just don't.  Their parents are not equipped to raise themselves, let alone raise a kid.  This is my perspective, but it's based on 10+ years of working with the homeless, and a wife that teaches middle school special ed at a Lima inner city school.  I know from firsthand that many of the parents do not support their kids' efforts in school, be it by making sure they do their homework, or helping them with their homework, or participating in school activities.  I know that many parents will come screaming into the school office when their child has been disciplined and immediately defend them, sometimes to the point where they are removed by security due to their language and aggressive behavior.  For some of these "parents", they don't see school as a priority, and don't follow up with the schools to make sure their kids are even attending classes.  I could go on, but this is my point:
Judging schools/teachers based solely on the performance of their students sounds like a good idea, and it might be a good idea, if the playing field was the same for all districts.  But it isn't, and you shouldn't hold the teachers accountable when they only have a fraction of the influence with the students that you think they do, and often whatever progress they make with the students(I'm talking with regard to maintaining order in the classroom so they can actually spend time teaching) is undone by the students' environment as soon as they walk out the door.  
I don't know what your experience was when you were in school, nor do I know what type of school district you live in now, but I can tell you, without any hesitation, that what I see with many of the schools is not the same animal it was when we were young.  It just isn't, and shouldn't be thought of like that.  Parents specifically, and communities in general need to be held accountable too, not just the teachers.

/^long winded, sorry.

[HORNS]

Horns, if I understand you correctly, you're upset that the new teachers have to "pay their dues" so to speak, by teaching in the shitty schools.  And the teachers that have seniority get to pick what districts they teach in, so of course, they pick the better schools, because of less problem students, higher grades, etc?

Is there a problem with that?
Isn't that how most jobs work?

I have a problem that teachers are not evaluated on their PERFORMANCE. Because that is how most jobs work.

Wanna know what you get for being a good teacher? Nothing. There is no such thing as a good teacher according to the teachers union - because stating that a teacher is exemplary automatically determines that other teachers are less than that.
A teacher is a teacher is a teacher according to the teachers union.

Hard to believe but its true. There is no procedure to reward any teacher for good performance and the only procedure to get rid of a bad teacher takes years of paperwork(yes years) and is almost always reversed by the union. Look at the situation here in Los Angeles: a teacher put his semen on cookies and fed them to his class of 8 year olds and he could not be fired. They had to pay him $40,000 to get him to quit and he retained his full medical benefits and pension.

All one has to do is look into the issue(what Lumpy won't do) and you will see that there is NO defending that union. They are the worst union in America. Here in CA even democrats hate them.

Perverting Justice
The teachers' union kills a Democratic bill to remove criminals from California's classrooms.
16 July 2012

Early this year, Los Angeles police arrested Mark Berndt, a longtime teacher at Miramonte Elementary School, on 23 counts of committing lewd acts on children between the ages of seven and ten. The sickening details of the crimes Berndt is charged with committing horrified the community and the state. More stories about California teachers accused of sexual misconduct with children have now surfaced. The Berndt case casts new light on the tortuous legal process that makes it nearly impossible for schools to rid themselves of even these depraved teachers. Perversely, the case also shows the extent to which teachers' unions will go to protect their prerogatives.

As a result of Berndt's indictment, the Los Angeles Unified School District asked the state legislature to change existing law to speed up the process of removing such teachers.

State senator Alex Padilla, a Los Angeles Democrat and former L.A. city councilman, wrote Senate Bill 1530, which would streamline the labyrinthine "dismissal statutes" that require districts to navigate a seemingly endless maze of hearings and appeals. Padilla's bill was actually quite narrow in scope, dealing only with credible claims that a teacher has abused a child with sex, drugs, or violence. The bill simply would add language allowing a school board to suspend an employee for "serious or egregious unprofessional conduct." Garnering strong bipartisan support, Padilla's bill sailed through the state senate in late May on a vote of 33 to 4.

The state assembly, however, is a stronghold for the California Teachers Association, which strongly opposes SB 1530. Before and during the hearings on Padilla's legislation in the assembly education committee, union leaders and their confederates launched a propaganda effort against the bill, deploying all their standard talking points. The union maintained that SB 1530 was nothing more than a "teacher-bashing bill." It was too cumbersome, too expensive, and would kill due-process rights. It was demoralizing and even "un-American." Though these attacks were transparently unfair, legislators got the message. The bill needed six "yeas" from the 11-member committee to pass; it received only five, with two "nays" and four abstentions.

[Lumpy]

Horns hates all unions in general (it's a kool-aide thing)

30% of new NYC teachers quit their job within the first 3 years. Using Horns' "logic" 30% of the schools are terrible places to work.

Everything revolves around standardized testing now. In NYC there were test questions about a 'talking pineapple' that didn't make any sense. Hilarious nonsense.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/talking-pineapple-question-on-standardized-test-baffles-students/2012/04/20/gIQA8i01VT_blog.html

Based on how well students perform taking these tests, teachers can lose their tenure, or lose their jobs, and their schools can lose funding. If your classroom tests great one semester, and then tests below average the next semester, you can be rated as "Highly Ineffective" because your test scores went down, not up.

This is the kind of thing they are striking against in Chicago. However, technically it's illegal to strike over anything except wages.

Standardized tests are bullshit:

"A Hearth is not a ______"

A. Vegetable
B. Vertebrate
C. Home
D. Doorway

How many kids in the inner city would even know what a hearth is?

[HORNS]

Horns hates all unions in general (it's a kool-aide thing)

Except that I'm a union member you fucking idiot.

I belong to local 839 here in Los Angeles and I absolutely adore them. But they are a private union and we negotiate our deal with the people who pay for it. Public unions negotiate (extort) for their deal with peopl holding other people's money. They negotiate in bad faith and they use their members dues to launch political attack campaigns against politicians who don't capitulate. And they are WHY we have such a deficit here in CA. Hate lobbyists? The teachers union is the worst.
In California's last election, their lobbying was one which outspent the pharmaceutical industry, the oil industry, and the tobacco industry combined.

But great post Lumpy. Way to support pedophiles rights!

[HORNS]

Based on how well students perform taking these tests, teachers can lose their tenure, or lose their jobs, and their schools can lose funding.

BZZZZZZ! WRONG.

There is something called "Curriculum Standards" in school districts and state districts and students performance grade wise factors in just as heavily. Where did you et your information on standardized tests from? Please give us a link, because it'll be a good laugh to see where you are searching desperately to find a reason to support racist policies and the protection of pedophiles.

[Lumpy]

40% of a Chicago teacher's job evaluation would be based on the results of standardized tests. That's one of the reasons why they're striking.

And they're fighting to prevent this from happening:

As of last October, teachers can be dismissed in 14 states based on their students' test scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/b-cs-chicago-teacher-strike-evaluation-system-looms-201903517.html

There is something called "Curriculum Standards" in school districts and state districts and students performance grade wise factors in just as heavily. Where did you et your information on standardized tests from? Please give us a link, because it'll be a good laugh to see where you are searching desperately to find a reason to support racist policies and the protection of pedophiles.

LOL... Was that jibberish supposed to make sense? You fail at basic English (as well as Math). Maybe that explains your irrational hatred of teachers.


Meanwhile, there's no clear evidence that charter schools do a better job than public schools.

BZZZZZZ! WRONG.

...a reason to support racist policies and the protection of pedophiles.

You're an idiot.

[HORNS]

You're an idiot.

Please Lumpy:

• post another link that proves my point.

• accuse me of being anti union... when i belong to a union.

• dance around the democrats having their own bill defeated by unions

• conveniently ignore a pedophle being protected by the union

• misquote me and then pretend you didn't

• criticize the film maker without knowing that you had previously praised him

• give commentary on a movie you didn't see



Oh, thats right, you already did all of that in this thread before we reached the 2nd page.

Sooper FAIL.

[Lumpy]

Good post, Special Ed.