Goddamn band promotion and getting goddamn gigs when you're old

[zachoff]

How do you do it?  This whole process has escaped me.

We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there.  How the hell do you get shows if you're us?  Denver has venues.  Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response.  Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion?  Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty).  None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to?  Seems difficult.

[Mr. Foxen]

I think most local gigs we get are from me sitting about in pubs and enough people knowing I'm in a band to point me out to people sorting gigs. Also fact I bring epic backline.

[Katman]

How do you do it?  This whole process has escaped me.

We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there.  How the hell do you get shows if you're us?  Denver has venues.  Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response.  Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion?  Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty).  None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to?  Seems difficult.

It isn't your fault. I found that when I hit my mid 50's, finding gigs was damn near impossible. The last 20 years, or so, I played in bands, it was all blues. Sort of age appropriate.
I was fortunate to join established bands that had club connections.
The bands I formed from scratch had near zero opportunities.
We put out expansive promo kits but seemed to be wasting our time. The music was great but once the club owner saw the promo pic of oldsters, they shit canned us.

My only suggestion is if you are getting no where, disband. And find an established band that needs you.
I've played bass for 50 years. And I was damn good.
But when the Alzheimer's hit, I forgot how to play. So my fretless bass sits next to me in the dining room where I write my cigar reviews.

Clubs are looking for bands with a following. The only way they make any dough off you is your followers drinking.
If you can't bring in more than 20-30 people, you don't stand a chance. I hate being blunt but this is my experience.

One trick we used was playing for free for several months so word of mouth spread. That's a great way to build a following.
Then...you can start charging once the club owners have heard from you and see the names of clubs you've played.
Just my opinion and buddy, I feel your pain. Getting old ain't for sissies. And older musicians tend to be much better players than the younger ones. So it's a big waste of talent to be in a great group but can't play out.

[Zero]

How do you do it?  This whole process has escaped me.

We're balding and graying, we can't play weeknights because of work and kids, we don't go to very many shows anymore, and we don't have many friends that are still playing music anymore, but we want to play a few shows here and there.  How the hell do you get shows if you're us?  Denver has venues.  Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response.  Maybe we (I) just suck at promotion?  Shitty reverbnation page and sort of a facebook band page (read: shitty).  None of give many shits about promotion but I guess we need to?  Seems difficult.

Is this for Straighten the Crooked? This is Jess from Low Gravity. Hit me up and I'll point you to the right people.

[zachoff]

Hey, Jess... It's a new band.  Me and Matt are still bass/vox & guitar.  New drummer, new direction.  More crossover/thrash sorta stuff but still a little bit of Straighten the Crooked in there.  Thanks though... Much appreciated.

[RacerX]

I was gonna suggest networking with some other bands, but it looks like you're doing exactly that!

[jibberish]

has anyone thought of actually catering to(ie "marketing to") the older crowd?

you said "age appropriate". that may be the key.

being basically over the hill myself,  i'm losing interest in breakout highschool battle of the bands and school of rocks.
it is great for the kids and their parents, but that's about it.

the radio focuses on the young crowd. the clubs focus on the young partiers.

WHERE DO THE OLDSTERS PARTY?

well, I have been contemplating shit along these lines for a while

we have a couple concepts in the works and I share them:

turbo geezer: the main goal is sort of like the mass driver mantra "balls to the wall party"
sets of nothing but shit kicking rowdy stuff.

old bikers and vets still dig the rock. play for them

i'm going to do a country set too. probably going with the name "Mason Dixon"

there is no reason one band cannot be many bands. wear a different getup and play a different set

Look you guys, rock has entered an era that has NEVER existed before: AGING ROCKERS
there are shitloads of them. you should hear the wasted people requesting songs on the classic station on sat nites. I love those people
they dredge up amazing old shit.

I swear they are out there, and a new mindset needs to be developed. they(we) don't want to listen to a bunch of punks just cutting their teeth.
around here guys like pat daley and charlie wiener do very well in the old music community.

as per usual, file under "crazy flushable ideas"

[RacerX]

WHERE DO THE OLDSTERS PARTY?

At home. What do I win?

[jibberish]

so maybe we need something like "The Cougar Club" to get these people out.

"No one under 50 allowed in unless accompanied by a fossil"

and they will have a replaceable Hollywood glass front window to throw stuff through just to show everyone who rocks hardest

now let your minds run heh....that could be a fun place once the people loosen up. old folks are a riot when they cut loose.

especially if the mgmt. gives them lots to do every day:  games food contests prizes bands dancing minus any condescendence from younger people watching.
pay special attention to the amenities and infrastructure to cater more to an older set. I would imagine,. the bathrooms would require special attention, but that right there is probably a huge deal breaker for many older folks: your standard bar bathroom is fucking disgusting and old folks cant do the necessary gymnastics..ok im grossing myself out..you know what I mean
if you had a chill place to hang out for a laugh and some diversion and really relax because all needs are more or less covered, minus the punk asses of course.
would you go there?

everything old school has changed so much in the whole music scene that it almost seems like it is going to be an eventual loser to perpetuate the current way things are done.

chief, i'm just throwing mud at the wall. there has got to be a slick way to get nice gigs outside of this whole club hierarchy that always seems rife with idiots, and as OP pointed out. the whole scene is loaded towards the younger crowd. there just has to be a way.

edit:

"Yep, we call this place 'The Dig'.  I know, to you it resembles a house of blues.
But there ain't nothing in there 'cept fossils, so no."

[RacerX]

there just has to be a way.

A tour of assisted living communities and nursing homes?

Sell merch such as Depends^TM with yer band's name silkscreened on?

[jibberish]

  or something along those lines....

assisted living communities. those folks are still 70% or w/e self sufficient. they occasionally only need the serious pro medical assistance.

i bet some poking around might uncover somewhere that has some kind of rowdy Saturday nite event deal. they may have entertainment budgets


I don't care how old I am or get, big band is novelty and for my occasional listen.  I think some dumbshit stereotype got established at a certain time like the "aging sinatraists" so old people listened to frank or benny goodman, and that became the defacto standard for representing old people music.
those peeps are pretty much all cashed out.

now the old people may have started on 50's rock/blues/jazz/country.
gimme the Sabbath S/T no matter how old I am, that's what i'm saying here. not the Charleston
I would be grateful if bands showed up to the hole I was trapped in some day and brought rock with them

[jibberish]

Sell merch such as Depends^TM with yer band's name silkscreened on?

that's actually an awesome idea.    heh.   super custom merch  everyone racing around in wheelchairs with *edit: big large band stickers(giving the wrong idea here) wearing band t-shirts

They can print on anything now. I used to work on one dude's balloon printing machines. imagine that shit.  my sister has a special inkjet that can print any flat surface
and she showed me the catalogs of the big wholesale houses that can supply and print your w/e on basically anything.

maybe if everyone had Immortal corpse paint CPAP masks they would all still be happily wearing them, you know, like spiderman underoos. you automatically rule. heh.

Anyway,if you were a super fun time for those folks, they would probably wipe out your merch and couldn't wait until you got back with another fun set for them

[spookstrickland]

I think unless you look young for age, 27 seems to be the age the discrimination starts.  I think going to out of the way spots and booking your own shows in Grange Halls and places like that might be the way to go.  Those people are starved for big time entertainment.  I live in a small town now and its all Bluegrasd music, but when a good tribute band comes to town the people do turn out, young and old.

[liquidsmoke]

You NEED to get involved in the local scene. Make time to see bands that sound kind of like you do and talk to them, get to know them.

[spookstrickland]

You NEED to get involved in the local scene. Make time to see bands that sound kind of like you do and talk to them, get to know them.

Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band.  If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene.  Then there are the clubs and or bookers that only book their "friends" so you stand very little chance of getting your foot in the door.

Not true in all cases but it happens quite a lot.  Be prepared to make your own scene playing house parties grange halls and VFWs until you can crack the local club scene.  Or better yet start passing around some good blow and hire a couple hookers to grease the wheels for you!

[Pissy]

Finding a different hobby curtails every issue I've read here.   

Seriously, getting old sucks. I think finding satisfaction with simply creating the music helps the way you feel about it all. You're up against so many things that it's all but impossible to gain a following.  At least that's the way it is here.

It's funny to watch the generation younger than myself go through the transition to old timers.

[mortlock]

im up there in age and I get all the opportunities I need. funny thing is, theres a shitload of bands in my area that are comprised of older dudes. a lot of the guys in bands in my town, are the same dudes that were in bands in my town when we were in our 20s. its fucking remarkable actually. and the younger guys playing seem to be cool with us, ive actually had a younger guy come up to me and talk about bands I was in back in the 90s. I was shocked and surprised at his knowledge of that shit.

I think it depends a lot on the kind of music. heavy rock and metal, in my experience, seem to be ok with age. its like bikers. you don't stop riding your Harley and quit the MC club because you got older. you just become an elder statesman in the scene. it seems to be respected.

like someone said, this is kind of new because only now are we getting aging metalheads and rock guys. like lemmy said, if you think youre too old to rock, then you are.  

[Lumpy]

I am the worst person to answer this question, because I don't play in a popular band. But I think there are a couple of general things I can say.

You can do a lot of band networking online. It takes a while to get to know people that way though.

Denver has venues.  Lots of them and I've sent emails to probably 10 of them with no response.

Are these small clubs or bigger venues? Either way, a lot of places are booked by 3rd parties. Contacting the club is not going to do anything, in those cases, you have to find the promoter. Also, lots of places don't want to arrange the bills (Lets see, Cockhammer wants to play here. We should ask Dick Tit to open). They prefer to be presented with a complete roster for the evening. Not always, but it's common. Try proposing an entire night.

Good website/bandcamp, records out on a label, good quality Youtube clips, positive reviews of shows and releases.

A promoter told me that he expects opening bands to bring in people, beyond the folks who were already going to the show anyway (I can't remember how many, I think he said 20 people). If you can't bring at least 10 paying customers, you probably shouldn't be opening a club show. 20 if it's a bigger venue. People who are there especially to see you, or your band made the show more important (and not counting people on your guest list.)

Back in the day, nobody wanted to book hardcore punk bands. The club owners didn't like the music, and were afraid of the fans. The solution was to book the shows themselves. Set up your own shows at the local Moose Lodge or rental hall. Or find a bar who has nothing going on, and either rent it, or ask if you can set up a show there, with the idea that this slow bar will be filled with drinkers.

You say the guys are too busy to play weeknights. But that's when a lot of the gigs are. Weekend nights are prime time slots which everybody wants. It's very likely that if you do get a booker's attention, you'll be offered a weeknight slot. Which you might have to turn down. So on top of being old and greying etc, you're also "unavailable". Meanwhile, the younger bands will jump on those shows.

Maybe your band will be destined to always be a weekend hobby, there's nothing wrong with that. Some guys have poker night, or bowling night. They go hunting or skiing on the weekends. My music project is kind of like that (no chance of commercial success). In a way, it's nice because it takes off some of the pressure, and your project can just be about having fun.

[liquidsmoke]

Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band.  If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene.

In small to mid sized cities people get sick of seeing the same bands play the same songs over and over and want new bands to form and move in.

I'm lucky(possibly 'spoiled') as we have a few dives in town that are easy to set up shows at as well as some nice venues with owners who are into heavy music. If this was not the case I probably wouldn't even bother trying to play live outside of maybe house shows. All of this horror story talk of pay to play, asshole club owners, toxic scenesters, etc makes me ill.

[spookstrickland]

Thats all great and all if the local scene is open to another band.  If there is not much room for all the bands a lot of times you run into very "Mercenary" type bands that are going to do anything to hang on to their scene.

In small to mid sized cities people get sick of seeing the same bands play the same songs over and over and want new bands to form and move in.

I'm lucky(possibly 'spoiled') as we have a few dives in town that are easy to set up shows at as well as some nice venues with owners who are into heavy music. If this was not the case I probably wouldn't even bother trying to play live outside of maybe house shows. All of this horror story talk of pay to play, asshole club owners, toxic scenesters, etc makes me ill.

When it comes right down to it, house parties have been some of the funnest shows Ive ever played, the old blues guys used to do that all the time called them "Fish Fries" or something like that, they got paid in Booze, Food and Pussy.  Plus you get a longer set and no rush to go anywhere after the show.

[Zero]

Hey, Jess... It's a new band.  Me and Matt are still bass/vox & guitar.  New drummer, new direction.  More crossover/thrash sorta stuff but still a little bit of Straighten the Crooked in there.  Thanks though... Much appreciated.

Cool. I've got a new project too (similar to LG, but we like to diversify our lineups) now if you want to hook up let me know. We're booked thru May but I may have a June date soon.

Also, I'm an old. There are a lot of great venues in Denver and I dont remember a time here where we had so many talented, down to earth bands playing in the 'scene'. As someone that's been playing here for 20 years or so, I have learned one thing: you will not get shows in this town without the help of other bands. 80% of the time, the booking agent will give one band an open date and that band will usually get the line up together (this obviously for non-tour support shows). So unless you're out networking, going to shows, emailing, texting, etc its going to be tough. I am not saying it's right, wrong or fair, it's just how I see it works here. It's also just my opinion.

Let me know if I can help

Either way, Good luck!

[agent of change]

One piece I haven't seen mentioned is, if you're old, you should be really fucking good at what you do. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of washed up fat balding dudes just jamming some played out bullshit. We're older than most of the bands we play with, but we're really good. Complex arrangements, three-part harmonies alternating with textures of screaming, and a bunch of big ass amps and drums. Our bassist plays a six string fretless. So even though a lot of other bands here don't play psychedelic doom (most of them are crust and black metal) we still get asked to play shows, and people come see us because we're having fun and playing some shit that makes them go... what?!?

/endbragrant

[Lumpy]

Agree... if you're grizzled looking veterans, you probably can't get away with playing basic shit that teenagers can play.

[mortlock]

what the fuck are you guys talking about. being old and grizzled doesnt mean you should have cannibal corpse type chops. think about sabbath and vitus. not super hard music to play for the most part. when i was a teenage bass player i was playing sabbath riffs.

"Nobody wants to watch a bunch of washed up fat balding dudes just jamming some played out bullshit."

not true. my gf goes to every show my band plays. willingly.

[jibberish]

my gf goes to every show my band plays. willingly.

O NO!

the end is near



(get it????hahahahahahaaaahahaa)