The Last Jedi

[Dylan Thomas]

Holy shit, I am absolutely blown away by how good this one was!!  It was beyond solid, it was flat out amazing.  I cannot wait to go see it again.  Unbelievable.  A great step in all the right directions, and it leaves so many possibilities for the conclusion of the trilogy.

My friend, this is so wrong.  It wasn't very good at all.  As someone who grew up with the original ones, (and seen them all in the theatre) I can honestly say that this one is lacking in almost everything.

I saw them all in the theaters as well, and I remember how The Empire Strikes Back was initially not fully embraced by fans because it was dark and weird, and fucked with expectations, though most came around to thinking it was the best of the trilogy.

From my perspective this movie speaks to all the things that were lacking from the originals, and the prequels.

For the sake of spoilers, I'm not going to go into why this movie succeeds on so many levels.  It's more philosophically sound and thought provoking than even the prequels, which despite their poor direction and questionable aesthetic choices were excellent in their display of world building and mythological themes.

Most importantly, it breaks the Star Wars universe wide open by turning some of the tired cliches and reoccurring themes upside down.  It doesn't do what's expected of it, it takes risks and fucks with fan's expectations.  I can see why a lot of fanboys who feel so much attachment to "this is how things SHOULD have gone" are incredibly butthurt right now. This is not the obvious, boring movie that those folks would have wanted made, far from it. [spoiler]Think about how the main theme of the movie is basically, failure, redemption, sacrifice, and how we often learn the most by how things fall apart.  Just about every single plan in the movie, they fall apart, and we have to look at what remains beneath the best laid plans of mice and men, what drives us and keeps us going in the face of despair and chaos.  This resonates deeply with me, much moreso than anything explored on prior Star Wars movies - it belays a deep maturity and wisdom lacking from the predecessors.[/spoiler]

That's fucking awesome and one of the reasons I like this so much.  The virtue and value of risk is the mark of serious art rather than space opera pulp, and this film is the riskiest one yet.


I'm really still stunned by just how unbelievable the movie was, I cannot believe that they were able to pull this off with such skill and finesse.  Sure, it's not perfect, though most of the criticism I see being levied at it, the original trilogy were far more guilty of.  I mean, Return Of The Jedi has NOT aged well in my book.

That's where I can really see this trilogy getting derailed, if after such a successful second film, Abrams and co. decide to make another "feel good" finale.  I really hope that doesn't happen.

[CanookieWookie]

My friend then u have seen things in this film that most of, if not all of us haven't.  The characters were stiff. 

The Asian girl was this episodes Jar Jar Binks - absolutely  useless, pointless and mostly unwatchable. 

Luke was made to be a..... I don't even know what, but he was wasted in this movie. They could have done so much more with him - the training with the Rey was weak.

Finns fight with the chick storm trooper was absolutely shit - really, he beats her so easily?  Her two seconds in each movie were wasted, for what could have been a great character, as well.

The casino thing was stupid.  Pointless. With all the minds in Hollywood - they couldn't have thought of something better to add in the movie?  How about more interaction between Luke and Rey?  Or give Luke a bigger platform?  There is so much more they could have done than look for a code breaker - lame.

Laura Dern, really? Another stupid character.

Etc etc etc.. 

[Jor el]

   Captain Phasma

   Badass enough to get chrome trooper armor and a cape.
   Didn't Chewie knock her oot in Force Awakens ?

[CanookieWookie]

Honestly I can't recall.  But yes, she (is a bad ass or one would assume so) should have easily chucked Finn around.  She should have had more story time, even if it was with her and Finn. 

[Dylan Thomas]

My friend then u have seen things in this film that most of, if not all of us haven't.  The characters were stiff. 

The Asian girl was this episodes Jar Jar Binks - absolutely  useless, pointless and mostly unwatchable. 

Luke was made to be a..... I don't even know what, but he was wasted in this movie. They could have done so much more with him - the training with the Rey was weak.

Finns fight with the chick storm trooper was absolutely shit - really, he beats her so easily?  Her two seconds in each movie were wasted, for what could have been a great character, as well.

The casino thing was stupid.  Pointless. With all the minds in Hollywood - they couldn't have thought of something better to add in the movie?  How about more interaction between Luke and Rey?  Or give Luke a bigger platform?  There is so much more they could have done than look for a code breaker - lame.

Laura Dern, really? Another stupid character.

Etc etc etc..

Ummmm.....I thought that Laura Dern was a badass.  I wasn't annoyed by Rose's character at all, and I would by no means equate her with Jar Jar, who I do not like.



The casino scene was a direct reference to one of the most iconic moments in movie history, ever.  Wings, used to watch it with my grandmother when she was still alive, who loved silent films and got me into them.  They recreate the camera work and panning, almost shot for shot if memory serves me proper. Really, really subtle and incredibly well done for sure.  That IS literally the work of great minds in Hollywood.

Adding that part to the plot line just goes along with the establishing the theme that I'd written about in my spoiler above, so....what you said is pretty much proving my point.

I absolutely loved what they did with Luke's character, it's a perfect example of what I was talking about above in my little spoiler. I don't think he needed a bigger platform, he pretty much had the biggest moments in the film, and really, they need to make more space for the new characters rather than dwell on the old.  That's one of the things I love about the film, how they did that so well....I mean, obviously not with Carrie Fischer, though there was no way to know that she would die before the next film.

The training with Luke and Rey....was it any more brief and underdeveloped than the training with Luke and Yoda in Empire?  See what I mean about holding the originals to the same standards??


This movie is the work of a very serious film maker, one intimately familiar not only with the Star Wars expanded universe, also cinema as a genre, and his attention to detail shows.

Yeah, pretty much your whole post proves my point about expectations and fanboys' attachment to what THEY think should happen with the characters and such, so than thanks for that!

You all can hate on it all you want, I'm making plans to see it again!!  So excited!!!

[Dylan Thomas]

Oh, and also:

[CanookieWookie]

My friend then u have seen things in this film that most of, if not all of us haven't.  The characters were stiff. 

The Asian girl was this episodes Jar Jar Binks - absolutely  useless, pointless and mostly unwatchable. 

Luke was made to be a..... I don't even know what, but he was wasted in this movie. They could have done so much more with him - the training with the Rey was weak.

Finns fight with the chick storm trooper was absolutely shit - really, he beats her so easily?  Her two seconds in each movie were wasted, for what could have been a great character, as well.

The casino thing was stupid.  Pointless. With all the minds in Hollywood - they couldn't have thought of something better to add in the movie?  How about more interaction between Luke and Rey?  Or give Luke a bigger platform?  There is so much more they could have done than look for a code breaker - lame.

Laura Dern, really? Another stupid character.

Etc etc etc..

Ummmm.....I thought that Laura Dern was a badass.  I wasn't annoyed by Rose's character at all, and I would by no means equate her with Jar Jar, who I do not like.



The casino scene was a direct reference to one of the most iconic moments in movie history, ever.  Wings, used to watch it with my grandmother when she was still alive, who loved silent films and got me into them.  They recreate the camera work and panning, almost shot for shot if memory serves me proper. Really, really subtle and incredibly well done for sure.  That IS literally the work of great minds in Hollywood.

Adding that part to the plot line just goes along with the establishing the theme that I'd written about in my spoiler above, so....what you said is pretty much proving my point.

I absolutely loved what they did with Luke's character, it's a perfect example of what I was talking about above in my little spoiler. I don't think he needed a bigger platform, he pretty much had the biggest moments in the film, and really, they need to make more space for the new characters rather than dwell on the old.  That's one of the things I love about the film, how they did that so well....I mean, obviously not with Carrie Fischer, though there was no way to know that she would die before the next film.

The training with Luke and Rey....was it any more brief and underdeveloped than the training with Luke and Yoda in Empire?  See what I mean about holding the originals to the same standards??


This movie is the work of a very serious film maker, one intimately familiar not only with the Star Wars expanded universe, also cinema as a genre, and his attention to detail shows.

Yeah, pretty much your whole post proves my point about expectations and fanboys' attachment to what THEY think should happen with the characters and such, so than thanks for that!

You all can hate on it all you want, I'm making plans to see it again!!  So excited!!!

Just by this alone, I know we won't see eye to eye on it.  Both of them put in two of the worst performances I have ever seen in a Star Wars movie, in fact, probably any movie. 

A director/screenwriter deciding not to play to the "fanboys" and what they may expect doesn't equate to being ground breaking or being brilliant or smart.  It smells of an ego that wants to be bigger than the movie and or franchise, and it just doesn't work here.

Luke's character could have been done so much better much more involved - there are so many things that could have been done here - and his training with Rey was nowhere near the same quality/development as Luke and Yoda.  How u can compare the two goes beyond me.

It is a weak movie with a weak script and weak characters - and weak character development.

It seems to me the only Star Wars movie (current incarnation) that was done well was Rogue One.

[Dylan Thomas]

Well, I'd suggest you write to JJ Abrams and make sure that he understands everything that was done wrong, and make sure that he follows your advise in making the final movie of the trilogy a success!


For the record, I liked Rey's training with Luke much better than Luke's with Yoda.  The part where Luke meets Yoda and doesn't recognize him was cool, and the "I can't believe it" - "This is why you fail" exchange was epic, though neither was part of the actual training itself.  Luke literally sitting down Rey and explaining to her how to use the force - way better than watching Luke jump around with Yoda on his back lifting rocks.  Way more powerful, universal and resonant.  And the cave scene??  Holy shit, now that was brilliant.  Tough to top the Dagoba dark side vision, and yup.  That was seriously next level shit.

Brilliant.  Just brilliant.  Took Star Wars to new dizzying heights and possibilities.  It's going to be tough to top this one, and I really hope that they can for the conclusion.  Hopefully they'll let you write AND direct Wookie, once you and JJ Abrams sit down and hash it all out!!

[Dave J]

I'm with Dylan Thomas on this debate. I loved the movie overall, despite its few flaws. I think what Dylan posted in the spoiler was spot on with what the movie was going for. I plan on seeing it again. And, I grew up with the originals in the theater. I watched the first one (episode IV) about 10 times as a kid in the theater.

[Jor el]

   Going again tomorrow.

[CanookieWookie]

Well, I'd suggest you write to JJ Abrams and make sure that he understands everything that was done wrong, and make sure that he follows your advise in making the final movie of the trilogy a success!


For the record, I liked Rey's training with Luke much better than Luke's with Yoda.  The part where Luke meets Yoda and doesn't recognize him was cool, and the "I can't believe it" - "This is why you fail" exchange was epic, though neither was part of the actual training itself.  Luke literally sitting down Rey and explaining to her how to use the force - way better than watching Luke jump around with Yoda on his back lifting rocks.  Way more powerful, universal and resonant.  And the cave scene??  Holy shit, now that was brilliant.  Tough to top the Dagoba dark side vision, and yup.  That was seriously next level shit.

Brilliant.  Just brilliant.  Took Star Wars to new dizzying heights and possibilities.  It's going to be tough to top this one, and I really hope that they can for the conclusion.  Hopefully they'll let you write AND direct Wookie, once you and JJ Abrams sit down and hash it all out!!

Maybe eh?  Maybe myself and the what seems like thousands of fans that seem to share in the disappointment.  Quite possible that each of us get to write one piece of dialogue. Imagine that?

With all due respect there is no comparison between Luke's three second training with Rey and the training and dialogue Luke had with Yoda.  No matter which way you word it/twist it, it is not even close - that is a massive part in what made Empire Strikes Back the best episode of the Star Wars saga. 

I get your excitment, its new, has that new movie look and new movie smell, but in the long run, it will fail to hold itself against the originals.   And there is nothing more unforgivable than the human jar jar binks (as that girls acting/dialogue - kissing Finn, really?) was just plain brutal.

No matter how shit it is, it'll still make money - so I guess in the end the real winner is Disney.

Edit - are we supposed to sympathize with Rosa (whatever her name was) because her sister died?  Even though up to this point in the saga her sister wasn't even part of any movie?  What about the other rebel folk that died in the scene?   Was the casino scene supposed to encourage us all to get behind her, and cheer her on while she seeked revenge against the rich and the new order? 

I haven't even brought up how cheesy the end was with the kid and his decoder ring, really? 

[socket]

Preach on, Wookwad!

[Dylan Thomas]

We are what they grow beyond.  That is the true burden of all masters.

[socket]

Need to see it again. It was a good bullshit "blockbuster" romp. But it sucked... maybe.

[Jor el]

   Needed more Snoke

[Lumpy]

So you're saying this is a good place to start on the series?

[mortlock]

most people seem to think it sucked. friends ive talked to most think it sucked. ill redbox this bitch. hopefully they don't fuck up the solo solo film.

[amadkins]

Not great, but still a damn sight better than anything Lucas has touched since 1983.

[mortlock]

My friend then u have seen things in this film that most of, if not all of us haven't.  The characters were stiff. 

The Asian girl was this episodes Jar Jar Binks - absolutely  useless, pointless and mostly unwatchable. 

Luke was made to be a..... I don't even know what, but he was wasted in this movie. They could have done so much more with him - the training with the Rey was weak.

Finns fight with the chick storm trooper was absolutely shit - really, he beats her so easily?  Her two seconds in each movie were wasted, for what could have been a great character, as well.

The casino thing was stupid.  Pointless. With all the minds in Hollywood - they couldn't have thought of something better to add in the movie?  How about more interaction between Luke and Rey?  Or give Luke a bigger platform?  There is so much more they could have done than look for a code breaker - lame.

Laura Dern, really? Another stupid character.

Etc etc etc..

The casino scene was a direct reference to one of the most iconic moments in movie history, ever.  Wings, used to watch it with my grandmother when she was still alive, who loved silent films and got me into them.  They recreate the camera work and panning, almost shot for shot if memory serves me proper. Really, really subtle and incredibly well done for sure.  That IS literally the work of great minds in Hollywood.

while i agree with that premise, i think they probably missed the target a little as youre probably the only person in the world who made that connection. i had to google 'wings' to see it was some movie from 1927. i had no idea. granted im no movie expert when it comes to that period but i have seen a few episodes of turner classic movies. im pretty sure i would have seen something on it. im an avid fan of the honeymooners so i am familiar with some shit from back then.

[giantchris]

Captain Phasma is wearing the Sith armor from the KoTR games basically. 

I liked the movie BUT.  I felt like I was watching a first movie in a trilogy and not the second in that there was an awful lot of setup and not really all that much happened. 










*****SPOILER ALERT IN A SEC*************







****SMALL SPOILER***
It really fucking pissed me off that they didn't tell you who Snoke was.  I thought it was incredibly arrogant and stupid of the director I read an interview with him where he was like "Well you didn't really know that much about the Emperor in the original movies," which, although true is irrelevant in that the original trilogy the emperor was a completely self explanatory character.  In this series we ALREADY HAVE the back history before this movie and this supposedly ancient guy Snoke is just randomly shows up here with a giant army and is all powerful.  He NEEDS explaining because where was he this entire time as he is clearly extremely old and was clearly alive for the first 2 trilogies.  I thought that brought a great movie down to a good movie.

[Jor el]

   

[Lumpy]

SNOKE = 'there's no coke'?


/contributing

[CanookieWookie]

Stick to Hardware Wars.

[Jor el]

   I love Hardware Wars

[CanookieWookie]

I don't know of a person who doesn't.  And if they are out there somewhere, they should just keep it to themselves.  We don't need to upset the universe.