How to write and record HEAVY FUNK

Discö Rice · April 15, 2011, 04:13:20 PM

Crover's actually had a fairly wide spectrum of drum sounds with several different producers, but yes, Billy Anderson would be a perfect choice.

justinhedrick · April 15, 2011, 04:15:27 PM

plus matt pike is the singer/guitar player. not sure where comparing the drum sounds came from?

boy, this thread has taken at turn . . .

LogicalFrank · April 15, 2011, 04:16:42 PM

I blame myself.

justinhedrick · April 15, 2011, 04:20:38 PM

Quote from: LogicalFrank on April 15, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
I blame myself.

don't beat yourself up frank, you're a product of your environment!

Hemisaurus · April 15, 2011, 04:25:28 PM

Hey Justin, have you ever recorded at Pogo? I'd love to hear what Mark Rubel would do with riff rock

justinhedrick · April 15, 2011, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 15, 2011, 04:25:28 PM
Hey Justin, have you ever recorded at Pogo? I'd love to hear what Mark Rubel would do with riff rock

i haven't. quite honestly, as far as i know, the majority of stuff that rubel is doing now is indie rock/lighter stuff.

i mean, Hum did downward is heavenward there in what, 96? that sounds awesome.

the next stuff we do is going to be out at great western in tolono w/ matt talbott and his partner aaron mccallister. it will be a 4 song ep. really odd concept album (too long to explain on here). but great westerns main room is so great, i would have had my wife birth our daughter there if we could have!

(for proof, listen to "the egg" by shiner. the drum sound is pure great western.)

LogicalFrank · April 15, 2011, 05:02:15 PM

Great Western is awesome and everyone should record there.

I am kind of sorry we don't have a real drummer...

Discö Rice · April 15, 2011, 05:25:15 PM

Quote from: LogicalFrank on April 15, 2011, 05:02:15 PM
Great Western is awesome and everyone should record there.

I am kind of sorry we don't have a real drummer...

That IS a shame.

inductorguitars · April 15, 2011, 06:29:09 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 14, 2011, 11:52:51 PM
I like production. I like something that is well recorded. I don't like the majority of Steve Albini recordings, it's like having a band play in a hospital, sounds thin and fizzy.

One of the things I like about sa is the room sound that he gets. Which to some can sound thin. The records that he records but doesn't mix sound terrible.

Lumpy · April 15, 2011, 09:29:43 PM

I sent the article to my friend who is an indie record engineer/producer - he said that digital recording has improved a lot since the article was written (probably about 10 years ago, since he talks about his 'new label').

In the new Tape Op the guy from Dungen says his early recordings have one mic on the drums. Then he went with two, then three. He has four drum mics on the latest album, and isn't going any higher than that (I feel like the Count... ah! ah! ah! Four Drum Mics!)

Hemisaurus · April 15, 2011, 10:05:20 PM

Quote from: inductorguitars on April 15, 2011, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 14, 2011, 11:52:51 PM
I like production. I like something that is well recorded. I don't like the majority of Steve Albini recordings, it's like having a band play in a hospital, sounds thin and fizzy.
One of the things I like about sa is the room sound that he gets. Which to some can sound thin. The records that he records but doesn't mix sound terrible.

It sounds thin

Ranbat · April 16, 2011, 10:33:18 AM

I prefer the "mic in the middle of the room" sound over anything. It just sounds more organic, especially when recorded to tape. I will say alot of records in the 70s were still able to capture that with multitracking. The 80s is when I really started noticing that it sounds like everybody recorded their parts separately. Stuff now just so often sounds awful to me. It's all according to one's own tastes.

inductorguitars · April 17, 2011, 11:44:48 PM

Quote from: Ranbat on April 16, 2011, 10:33:18 AM
I prefer the "mic in the middle of the room" sound over anything. It just sounds more organic, especially when recorded to tape. I will say alot of records in the 70s were still able to capture that with multitracking. The 80s is when I really started noticing that it sounds like everybody recorded their parts separately. Stuff now just so often sounds awful to me. It's all according to one's own tastes.

If anyone is interested I can give a run down on Drum micing SA style from what I saw as an intern.
Even if Hemi poo-poo's it.

eyeprod · April 18, 2011, 09:25:47 AM

cool articles. I recorded my rpm project with just two mics on the drums, one on the kick and one overhead pointing towards the snare. I really liked the results, best drum sounds I ever got at home but in all honesty they worked great for a rough sort of lo-fi sound, but probably not so good for kinds of music where killer drum sounds are crucial, i.e. metal. Gotta remember that this article is about garage funk, so no need to read too much into it.

justinhedrick · April 18, 2011, 09:28:51 AM

Quote from: inductorguitars on April 17, 2011, 11:44:48 PM
Quote from: Ranbat on April 16, 2011, 10:33:18 AM
I prefer the "mic in the middle of the room" sound over anything. It just sounds more organic, especially when recorded to tape. I will say alot of records in the 70s were still able to capture that with multitracking. The 80s is when I really started noticing that it sounds like everybody recorded their parts separately. Stuff now just so often sounds awful to me. It's all according to one's own tastes.

If anyone is interested I can give a run down on Drum micing SA style from what I saw as an intern.
Even if Hemi poo-poo's it.

i think i already know, but i'd like to hear about it any way!

Ranbat · April 18, 2011, 09:33:11 PM

Quote from: inductorguitars on April 17, 2011, 11:44:48 PM
Quote from: Ranbat on April 16, 2011, 10:33:18 AM
I prefer the "mic in the middle of the room" sound over anything. It just sounds more organic, especially when recorded to tape. I will say alot of records in the 70s were still able to capture that with multitracking. The 80s is when I really started noticing that it sounds like everybody recorded their parts separately. Stuff now just so often sounds awful to me. It's all according to one's own tastes.

If anyone is interested I can give a run down on Drum micing SA style from what I saw as an intern.
Even if Hemi poo-poo's it.

I'll second that. I'd like to hear/read it just because I'm geeky that way.

inductorguitars · April 19, 2011, 03:16:31 PM

Ok for Tar's last album, sa used (this is from memory mind you):

Kick: D112
Snare: Beyer M201 with a Shure sm98 lav mic taped to the top so both diaphragms are phase-aligned and pointing to the snare head. No High hat mic just leaks from the snare mics.
Toms: AKG 451's with pads.
Floor Tom: RE20 or MD 421 I can't remember.
Overhead:Neumann SM-2 stereo condenser mic. He had really low ceilings so the overhead was more like a whole kit stereo mic that was fairly close to the kit - maybe 2 feet away. The were also in MS stereo, so left, center, right on the console. Kinda like this -
/
|
|

Room sound:2 Gefell m2's tube condensers with omni capsules taped to the floor (in each corner) in XY stereo.

just for Hemi:
Bass: a Sennheiser 409, for a nice mid growl.

justinhedrick · April 19, 2011, 03:26:06 PM

the 409 is my favorite bass cab mic for sure. it just sounds . . . right.

Hemisaurus · April 19, 2011, 03:30:40 PM

Hey, the guy can record, but he's more scientist than artist, but his acoustic knowledge, from the articles I've read by and about him is extensive.

Is that a fairly old setup? He claims, or Josephson claim, that he uses their mics every session now. In fact they show a pair of their mics on drums.

inductorguitars · April 19, 2011, 03:32:59 PM

Quote from: justinhedrick on April 19, 2011, 03:26:06 PM
the 409 is my favorite bass cab mic for sure. it just sounds . . . right.

Yep just make sure it's the real one not those 609 newer models. I have one

inductorguitars · April 19, 2011, 03:35:02 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 19, 2011, 03:30:40 PM
Hey, the guy can record, but he's more scientist than artist, but his acoustic knowledge, from the articles I've read by and about him is extensive.

Is that a fairly old setup? He claims, or Josephson claim, that he uses their mics every session now. In fact they show a pair of their mics on drums.

Yep and yep.

Yes old 1995. He now uses the Josephson's for snare, he had a few of his mics back then and a custom job iirc.

chlorpromazine · April 20, 2011, 11:25:42 AM

I've made good jam room recordings with one mic, but I don't want to use that method on something I'm going to release or even seriously demo.

Lumpy · April 20, 2011, 08:52:28 PM

Feel free to change the topic title if you want...

From the Dungen interview in the most recent Tape Op:

Dungen records have a particular sound. Most people consider it to be "vintage" but it can also be described as very "real" sounding. Most notable are the drums. How do you mic them?

One (Shure) SM57 between the snare and the kick, with the membrane here. (Indicates capsule above bass drum hoop, 90 degrees to the side of the snare's shell, aimed at the floor tom). I know it sounds like nothing special, but it gets the perfect blend between the kick and the snare. The earliest recordings I did just used that one mic and people thought it sounded great! It grew from there. I added one mic (Sennheiser 421) in front of the kit. Not in the kick, rather in front of it, but pointed right at it. Then one more over the drummer's shouder, "looking" at the kit. On the new record I thought I should try a more dry sound, so I close-mic'd the kit with 421s. I never use more than four mics though. Of course none of this matters without great playing!

Hemisaurus · April 20, 2011, 09:53:31 PM

I think you can change it, if you modify the first message?

Whenever I do the 3 or 4 mic method on drums, I usually end up dropping out the snare drum close mic, it just seems to much.

There's a huge difference between drums on stage, and drums in the studio (or basement or whatever) despite what your drummer may think, great results can be had with no close mics atall.

I saved a mix in one of the punk bands I was in, they had close mic'd all the drums, and had them too close, some of them were clipping and rattling off the hoops. Dropping out all the close mics and just using the overheads and a bit of EQ we got a really nice drum sound.

chlorpromazine · April 21, 2011, 10:52:16 AM

That's pretty condescending, man. Your drummer knows what sound he's trying to get. He may be looking for a sound from his kit that OH mics alone won't reproduce. I don't know about your guy, but I have a sound in my head that I'm looking for. It varies depending on the project, but over the years with head selection, tuning, and mic placement I've figured out how to make my drums sound the way I intend for them to sound for the music I'm playing. In a band situation, if my bass player (no offense Metal Dave) came in and tried to dictate to me how many mics I could use on my drums, I'd tell him to get fucked. Working with limitations (number of open tracks, mics, stands, cables, or whatever) is one thing, but limitations that are imposed out of concrete thinking are another. If nothing else, what's wrong with throwing a few mics up and humoring the guy? He may be on to something.

If you're getting really hot, unusable snare sounds from the batter head, you can go one of several directions. First try using a -20 dB pad on that mic. You can pick up inline mic pads for around $20, but if can't do that, try using that mic under the snare to catch some sizzle off the snares. Sometimes close miking the snare's shell produces a good result in the mix. Soloing a mic from the bottom head or shell will sound like hammered shit, but a little of that in a drum mix can go a long way.