Can any of you turn a schem into a layout?

[Danny G]

Need to turn the Dunlop Bass Crybaby schem into a pedal layout. I can build shit but cannot build something from a schematic #semiretarded

Have schem if anyone can translate. Need a new bass crybaby but tired of breaking them and would rather just build my own at this point.

[jibberish]

are you looking to make a PCB?  lots of autocad around can make traces and donuts. and special ones like pcad has component libraries.  two of us reverse engineered some rs232-422 converters, then built several hundred for a job we underbid. it worked. i still have a couple stacks of the business card sized PCB's.
totally cool experience designing your own boards, then getting them made.

if you just want the stuff identified so you can breadboard or otherwise appalachian engineer it, post a link to the schematic.  i can tell you what all the components are.

IF you want a PCB design by hand...MAY be possible if the thing is fairly straightforward..

so whatchagot home slice?

[SpaceTrucker]

I think he has a crybaby bass wah, but I could be wrong.

[Danny G]

Have built/modded many a pedal, but am retarded when it comes to reading actual schematics.

If one of you could so kindly turn this into a layout diagram, you will be saving me $110 on another pedal that's just going to break anyway.

[stentorianeffects]

Have you ever tried making a layout? I don't have the time to make one for you but if you try one yourself I'll gladly look it over.

I would suggest trying a perf board layout and just make the layout correspond to the schematic for your first layout and not worry about getting it too small.

try using diy layout creator http://diy-fever.com/software/

and read here for help understanding schematics http://beavisaudio.com/techpages/SchematicToReality/

[bitter]

^
Thanks for the resources!

[moose23]

There's a couple of wah layouts on here, might be of use. I'm also happy to have a look over a layout if you make your own.

http://www.turretboard.org/?cat=1

[jibberish]

that is quite straightforward of a schematic.  all the upside-down xmas trees are the common ground plane..consider all those one connection. to actually connect them all in the schematic would get real spaghetti looking.

the rest of the componentry is basically hooked to the power side or signal side and most end up with a leg on the ground plane.

you could do this on a perf board or bread board for sure, as already mentioned. thos elittle breadboards for like circuits labs in school had power/ground rails built in and spring-loaded wire connectors so you really could zip a circuit together quickly to test it.  

just ID and source all the components. you could swipe some from the old pedal if they arent in a PCB with their leads all soldered and cut way too short to mess with further. things like resistors and pots dont break as such.  like that's not what failed your original pedal. semiconductors or a failed cap is more likely the issue. or physical fail like a cracked trace.

i'll play with this and see if i can work something up suitable for handwiring

edit:
looking at it. the signal follows into the bases of 3 transistors and on to th eoutput. each transistor has circuitry  to alter it's amplification function. all resistors and capacitors(pot=resitor). the power rail along the top basically is connected to filter caps and what is called a clamping diode. it clamps the voltage of the supply(on the left there) to a max.  if the voltage goes over, the zener conducts like a short. that 1k resistor inline all of a sudden has use. thats what keeps the supply from being in a dead short.
so if you visualize some cobwebs strung between two rails with the signal thread weaving though the middle..there you go.

[jibberish]

danny, i explained that like that, to see if i can help you take the scary out of that. to empower you to take those out yourself would make my day.

some kind of review or transistors for dummies basic info would be key.   they are like a heh, valve (gee never heard that term before)  the base is your itsy bitsy level electric..like the knob you are twisting on a huge pipe. this base voltage/current(depends on application and device) then controls the big flow through the collecto-emitter. if you look at those 3 transistors..the base(middle connection to the side) only has itsy low level signal creeping along.

the emitter-collectors are somehow directly or a component away from the power/ground rails. all that crap around the transistors create different amp functions by messing with the voltages/currents around the transistor(time/phase delays, wave shapes, gain adjustment, etc)

transistors make great switches. set the base voltage to max, whole shebang conducts through the emitter-collector to the max to the power rail. flip off the base juice and the thing acts like an open.

but you can see how the valving is somewhere in between the full on/full off switch function.  music is waveforms and the big flow can be made to follow the little flow into the base. that is amplifier theory in a sentence.

[jibberish]

regarding setting voltage levels, often you see something called a resistive voltage divider. brute force, somewhat wasteful setup that uses 2 resistors.  y'all are good with the speakers in series/parallel business so this is the same game.  if i have a 12v +rail and i want 6v at my transistor base, i choose 2 even valued resistors. voltage drop across entire circuit from rail to rail is 12v(the supply)  each resistor drops the same amount so at the middle connection point of the 2 resistors, the voltage is 6v..  you alter the ratios to move the voltage up or down. larger value takes more drop. if i used 2k on top and 1 k on bottom the voltage would be 4v at the 1k-2k connection point. more got dropped above(8v).  the ratio determines the voltage. the actual values determine the current.

i can get 6v from a pair of 1megohm OR 1 ohm resistors, but the current difference is a millionfold.  op amps(souped up amplifier circuits) have uber hi impedance inputs..they want no current. so i would use that bigger 1meg stuff to bias that base. other values are determined by the needs of the circuit and components being biased

so that's basically what is happening in that circuit.  resistors set voltages and aid amp circuits forms. caps filter and aid amp circuit forms. 2 rails power the whole deal. I/O jacks with low level signal going through the small energy bases to feed the next stage for the next round of amplification/modification and eventually out the output jack.
few extra boilerplate power circuit items thrown in there for safety and that's about it.

[jibberish]

to actually do a layout, i'll look for large hubs with many connections, or the most connections to sort of start organizing it, but that's just me.   a bare piece of wire between 2 connection points doesnt even have to be there..it is just an extension of the connection.  so 2 things on opposite sides of the diagram with a wire connecting 2 parts of them could actually just be next to each other with their leads attached to each other. conversely, you can spread 2 close ones out with an added piece of wire.

this should add several degrees of "morphability" to just how that layout ends up in practice vs how it was chosen to be layed out in that schematic.

there is advantage to a simple 2-sided PCB. that being you run all your grounds through to the big solid sheet of metal on the whole bottom.  you can ghetto that with grouped ground leads through to the other side and wire of course, which is definitely easier to make at home, but you can order all kinsds of neato PCB variations and sizes and protoboards(kind of a breadboard PCB).

i'm saying dont be afraid to sort of ignore the grounds whilst organizing the rest.  keeps it simple until the end of the layout phase

[VOLVO)))]

We need a lesson in "common ground."

Herb? New effects guy? Explain.

[jibberish]

ground plane IS the common ground. often it's in the middle of a multilayer board and generally on the back of a 2 side. on a one-side, it has to weave all through the other traces

(or neg power rail)

i would fake a 2 sided board and run all my grounds on the backside, thus eliminating a ton of front traces(wires).
run the ground legs through insulated hole to the back and run a buss wire to connect them all.

brass screws are easier to solder than aluminum...steel rusts.   brass grommets/rivets make excellent ghetto donuts.
if you have any IC's, get the matching socket from like digi-key. you solder/mount the socket, then plug the IC right in. dont solder IC legs unless you can do so from the back side onto a trace.. furthermore, you may send a lethal dose of heat up one of the legs during soldering. in general, go easy in heating up semiconductor legs. soldering iron->450º+++, silicon fails @~450º.

a donut is that hole through the PCB that usually has a solder pad on both sides for through, or at least a pad on top to either hold the component or a trace is connected to the solder pad

ps, watch overvoltaging can type caps. they literally go off like a lame m-80, and the stench is unforgettable. so watch your voltage ratings when you buy caps..generously exceed the operating voltages



BTW:the original pedal will give you all kinds of component info, like are they using mylars or cans or what caps, what wattage value resistors do they use,and just in general a feel for what it is you are looking for.
let us know if you want help sorting out the component symbols on that schematic. it's mostly resistors and caps

[jibberish]

bad boys rape our young girls but violet gave willingly (resistor color code chart in a sentence)

[Danny G]

I tried making my own layout from that schematic and after 5 minutes my brain hurt.

As said before I have built dozen+ pedals for myself and others (using the layouts, not the schems), and just need that schem turned into a layout I can throw together on perfboard.

I've tried modding the tone cap on a guitar Crybaby, no dice. Sounds like absolute shit. Opening up both pedals, the Bass Crybaby is a completely diff circuit, and bears no resemblance whatsoever to a guitar crybaby.

I'll def look into the online DIY stuff, I tried downloaded one program but it was like trying to figure out DreamWeaver without the instructions and with no knowledge of web building.

But yeah, if one of you can beat me to it that would be awesome, as I am really pressed for time and about to leave for a 2 week tour of India with Eric Tessmer Band.

[spookstrickland]

Not to be a dick but just learn to read a schematic.  It's not that hard.  I taught myself to read them it's pretty easy just put a little study time in and you will be set for life.  It will open up a whole new world to you.  You are a smart guy Danny you can do it.

[SpaceTrucker]

The time frame is whats making his brain hurt. also, you might be overthinking it.

just google a schematic chart showing the part and the schematics symbol. those circles with crap in them are pots
the squigly lines are Re sistors the line with an arrow hitting it are diodes. the door opening thingy I think is a switch. and if it has more than one line going in it, with some kind of part, that part is probly a tran sistor.

but don't take my word for it, get a chart, use google and make a layout. two weeks is plenty. or just get some cash and pay someone to do it?

[VOLVO)))]

Electrodroid, Danny. They have it for androids and iphones.

sent from Mortlock's mom's laptop...

[Danny G]

As mentioned before I have built and/or modded the shit out of dozens of pedals and know what all the symbols are and what they do. Schematics and parts layouts are two totally diff beasts.

Anyone who says taking a schem and turning it into a layout is easy, well do it already!!!!! I'm about to throw my Snarling Dogs wah in the trash, doesn't sound right for bass and so big/heavy it won't stay fixed to my pedalboard and knocks into shit.

I don't have time to figure it out myself, nor do I have the $$ to have the schem cloned by any number of local pros.

//end rant, and my apologies for said rant.

[Hemisaurus]

No. If you're to cheap to pay a professional what he's worth, but still expect to be paid as a professional musician, wtf?

I politely avoided posting on the thread, which I felt was a blatant, I'm too cheap to pay for this to be done, and too lazy to do it for myself attempt, and now your haranguing people for not doing your work for you. So here you are, in living colour, when you do a layout, put the components that connect to each other, close to each other, unless they are physically too large to exist side by side. All there is to it, go do it.

[Danny G]

Again apologies for the rant everyone.

Hemi: I am broke because I just toured for 3 months and lost my ass. It happens in this business. I came back home to not have a home, as my housemate could no longer renew the lease due in large part to my variable income. Was supposed to go to India for two weeks this week nd that just fell thru. Now I am scrambling to fill my schedule and wonderin how I am going to have the money for a downpayment on a new place. There fore as soon as I get home (in van from a weekend of gigs as I type) I will be netowrking, making phone calls, doing whatever the hell I can to fill the new gap in my work calendar.

Hence no time to figure this out on my own, hence me being too cheap to buy one/pay a pro and hence my very short temper.

[Hemisaurus]

But that wasn't the case on the first post, was it?

The sad thing is, many techs on a schematic that simple, would just do it as they go along, if you just dropped the parts in my (or collectively their) lap. Asking someone to write it out, is kind of like me asking you to write out a bassline, so I can play it, rather than you just playing it, and me figuring it out y'know.

I can give you the root notes for free, imagine the signal comes in on the left, and leaves on the right. The 9V runs along the top of the perfboard, the ground along the bottom, the transistors (or Darlingtons in this case) are the important parts. The  1K resistor is in series with the 9V, so the end of it that doesn't connect to the 9V can be considered the supply rail, as it feeds the other components, so group that 1K, the .1Uf, the 220uF and the Zener together, as they form the power supply. Put the first transistor on the board, connect it to the power rails, and then add the surrounding components, then once you've got them fitted, move onto the second transistor, and do the same thing, and then the third.

Then you just do the same thing again, but soldering it together as you go along. Especially with perfboard, you'll find your layouts tend to look much like the schematic does, you'll probably have the .01uF, the 2M2, the 22pF and the 1M8 to the left of the first transistor, the 2M2, 22pF and 10K will all stretch to the bottom of the board to reach the ground plane, etc. Where you choose to put the 'power supply' is probably going to be based on the size of the components, but likely they'll either be on the left of the circuit or the right.

[VOLVO)))]

I really do wish somebody would post a video for us visual learners. I've been looking at these things for almost a year, and I know all of the symbols, and I can even trace the entire circuit with a schem. The component side doesn't bother me. It's the solder side that confuses me. I guess I'd just have to see it. I dunno, that's my flaw.

[bitter]

Yeah, I find it all confusing as well. Trying to learn but I'll probably just fuck something up. Years ago, a buddy tried to build a Fuzz Face kit and it didn't even work after completion. If he couldn't do it, I most certainly can't either   

[Hemisaurus]

Maybe you guys can try shirt card circuitry. You get a nice piece of stiff card, or melanite (that hardwood veneer on countertops and Dano's) and push the component legs through, you could even go as far as sticking the schematic on the card, and putting each component over it's schematic representation. Then solder the connections together on the back. The most common stuff in the UK is veroboard, and I find it much easier to work with, than regular perfboard, but it does require more thought in layout terms, as there are copper stripes on the board for connection

Like I say, do the components in groups, transistor/ic/tube #1, and the associated components that connect to it, start at the left, work your way across, do tran/ic/tube #2, connect it to the power, to t/i/t #1 and all the other bit's, move on to the next one.