e-drumming

Harm · September 14, 2011, 12:26:31 PM

I have gotten an e-drumkit a while ago mainly because i wanted to practise at anytime without bothering anybody. After reading about it here and there and messing a bit with it i think it has more potential then i imagined. This afternoon i messed with a vintage kit and ran it through cassette and this is what it sounds like. Do you like e-drumming or hate it?

Discö Rice · September 14, 2011, 12:36:30 PM

Hate. At least for the purposes of playing music. Practice - you gotta do what you gotta do, but there's a lot you can't learn from practicing on e-tubs.

gatorsnot · September 14, 2011, 01:47:07 PM

I agree that it's better to be able to practice than not. If you're learning to play drums on them then you'll have problems later on acooustic kits with how you strike the drum. But it's better to play than not.

Harm · September 14, 2011, 02:12:52 PM

I feel that my drumming on acoustic drums has improved since i have the e-kit.

Discö Rice · September 14, 2011, 03:41:36 PM

Gatorsnot's right about striking the drum. There is a plague of drummers these days who just suck at striking the drums correctly. If you're listening to the sound of your electronic drums, they aren't telling you that you're putting the right length of stick into your rimshots, burying your stick in the drum, or doing any thing else that's affecting your tone. Electronic snare drums are almost always significantly smaller than your acoustic drums, which will greatly affect your ability bring your acoustic snare to life. Even if your e-drums have rimshot capability, the angle on a ten inch pad is different than a fourteen inch snare drum.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with practicing on e-drums, as long as you play your acoustic drums more. Just make sure you're practicing with a metronome either way.

Hemisaurus · September 14, 2011, 04:32:06 PM

a metra-what-now? isn't that what ya ride to the practice space

Harm · September 14, 2011, 05:13:29 PM

Quote from: Discö Rice on September 14, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with practicing on e-drums, as long as you play your acoustic drums more.

I wish i could, but if that was the case i wouldn't own an e-kit today.

Hemisaurus · September 14, 2011, 05:22:17 PM

can I ask what e-drumkit you be using?

Harm · September 14, 2011, 05:38:05 PM

Yes, i use a TD4 with wich i trigger the library of Addictive Drums through midi.

Corey Y · September 14, 2011, 07:12:51 PM

I've been wanting to buy an electronic kit since I got Superior Drummer 2. A friend of mine had a Roland kit and everything but the kit sounded passable on cassette multi-track demos. We did one with just the drums, he still played the cymbals but muted the output, then went back and did a stereo overhead of just his real cymbals and it sounded pretty good. Now with SD2 I've done lots of tracks where no one knows it's samples at all and I know it's supposed to work well tracking with an e-kit or even live (I think it has a separate application for that actually). I used to take drum lessons for about 6 months, when I was in between bands for a long stretch, but it's been a few years and I sold my kits. I just reconnected with my old teacher though, so I've been thinking about starting back up. It would be a hell of a lot easier (and quieter) with an e-kit for sure. I may try to wrangle someone who has one into a trying it out with the program to see how it comes out.

Corey Y · September 14, 2011, 07:16:01 PM

Oh and nothing about that track screams "electronic!" to me. In the context of a full song I bet you could use that and never get a "are those electronics drums?" comment on it.

fallen · September 14, 2011, 07:52:32 PM

As someone who played drums for a long time the only thing that sounds super fake to me in 90% of e-drum recordings are the cymbals.

Most studio recordings of drums have everything super close mic'd and processed to the max anyway.

I think with some v-drums and then real cymbals recorded with one overhead mic it can sound pretty good.

More practice is always better but I would avoid putting those e-drums as close together as you can get them, space them out like a regular kit instead of a kiddie kit.

Harm · September 15, 2011, 04:28:50 AM

Quote from: Corey Y on September 14, 2011, 07:12:51 PM
I've been wanting to buy an electronic kit since I got Superior Drummer 2. A friend of mine had a Roland kit and everything but the kit sounded passable on cassette multi-track demos. We did one with just the drums, he still played the cymbals but muted the output, then went back and did a stereo overhead of just his real cymbals and it sounded pretty good. Now with SD2 I've done lots of tracks where no one knows it's samples at all and I know it's supposed to work well tracking with an e-kit or even live (I think it has a separate application for that actually). I used to take drum lessons for about 6 months, when I was in between bands for a long stretch, but it's been a few years and I sold my kits. I just reconnected with my old teacher though, so I've been thinking about starting back up. It would be a hell of a lot easier (and quieter) with an e-kit for sure. I may try to wrangle someone who has one into a trying it out with the program to see how it comes out.

I am interessted in how SD2 sounds in a track, would you mind sharing a few with wich you used it?

Harm · September 15, 2011, 04:32:38 AM

Quote from: Corey Y on September 14, 2011, 07:16:01 PM
Oh and nothing about that track screams "electronic!" to me. In the context of a full song I bet you could use that and never get a "are those electronics drums?" comment on it.

I agree and even the cymballs are digital since i avoid playing with open hihat, because then it shows.

chlorpromazine · September 15, 2011, 05:03:05 AM

Anything that makes you want to practice more is a good thing. I don't like them for live performance or recording, though.

Hemisaurus · September 15, 2011, 08:25:10 AM

Not only don't I mind electronic drums, I don't mind drum machines in live performance. There was a local band, just bass and guitar, and a Casio keyboard doing rhythm and they were awesome, funny as hell, always making jokes, treating the Casio like a real guy (they called it Raul). Then they got a real drummer and another guitarist, and were just another bad metal band that took themselves too seriously, didn't crack anymore jokes

Gzus, of course, hates me because of this

Corey Y · September 15, 2011, 10:42:34 AM

Yeah Harm, the tracks on the Mental Waste bandcamp are done with SD2. Those are really fast, which I think exposes digital drums the most. I think it showcases the general quality of the samples though.

Harm · September 15, 2011, 11:09:48 AM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on September 15, 2011, 08:25:10 AM
There was a local band, just bass and guitar, and a Casio keyboard doing rhythm

I learned to play drums on a casio keyboard wich now resides with my ex father in law.

Harm · September 15, 2011, 11:10:44 AM

Quote from: Corey Y on September 15, 2011, 10:42:34 AM
Yeah Harm, the tracks on the Mental Waste bandcamp are done with SD2. Those are really fast, which I think exposes digital drums the most. I think it showcases the general quality of the samples though.

I couldn't tell that they are electric, did you use real cymballs?

Corey Y · September 15, 2011, 12:00:46 PM

It's all Superior Drummer, no live drummer and no live recording (Actually vocals are the only live sound recorded on that demo). We used the standard "Avatar" kit that comes with the program and a mixture of the "Library of the Extreme" midi beat packs, a couple bits of some other standard rock midi packs and a little editing. They sell different kits, a variety of midi packs recorded by real drummers on e-kits and producer presets for the built in mixer (which I don't use, but is really nice) and you can use third party midi packs as well, but you only need the basic program and a DAW if you have an e-kit. Like I said I think there's a standalone program that comes with it that doesn't require a DAW, but I've never checked it out.

If you can save the midi file created from playing something on that kit I could create a sample for you using SD2 in Logic, if you want to hear what it would sound like.

Harm · September 15, 2011, 12:23:52 PM

That sounds really good.

Thanks for the offer but i'll save you the time and trouble. I know that SD2 is probably the best software and it also was my first choice, but i tried downloading it and could not get it up and running. So then i decided to try somthing else and wound up with AD wich also caused me headaches before i had it running but finally i succeeded. Besides that from what i read it seems to me that SD2 causes latency quicker then AD - somthing i absolutly cannot work with since i play my drumtracks live - but is this true?

Corey Y · September 15, 2011, 04:14:38 PM

No idea about latency, since I use it with programmed midi and not a kit. I certainly don't have any problems at all using it the way I do, even if I run it with a mixer preset and using a lot of other plugins at the same time that could bog down the processor, since on all those demo tracks I'm using an amp sim, effects, Space Designer for cab impulses and URS Console Strip Pro on a bunch of tracks. There's a lot of links in the chain that could make it not work optimally that aren't an issue for me, especially since I don't use a kit with it. There are forums based around the program, and similar types of software in general, I'm sure you could find some answers/suggestions from people who use it in conditions that match yours. There might be a program that is more suited particularly for use with an electronic kit in a live setting. I checked out a lot of other programs, SD2 was just the one that seemed to be the highest sound quality that fit for how I wanted to use it.

Latency could also have a lot to do with what DAW and interface you use. That's one of the main reasons I went mac, so I could use Logic, and picked a firewire based interface. A lot of other DAWs have serious latency issues unless you spend big bucks on DSP based expansion cards, Logic (and its plugins) are native based.

Harm · September 15, 2011, 04:36:26 PM

If only i could try it out so i would know. From what i heard SD2 sounds really well, especially the cymballs. I have heard stuff where they play rides and open hihats that sound very natural en realistic, wich as also pointed out in this topic, is hard to find. Frankly SD2 is one of few programs i am seriously considering to buy, beeing a long time pirate. Have you tried Ad too?

Corey Y · September 15, 2011, 05:48:25 PM

Nope, SD2 is the first software instrument I've used for electronic drums. Before this it was all loops or programmed midi on drum machines, FL, that sort of thing. For a while what I actually did was Which left a lot to be desired. I've read people saying good things about Addictive Drums though. I know there are some tutorials on youtube for using e-kits with SD2, but how helpful they actually may be is probably a crapshoot.

Harm · September 16, 2011, 05:30:57 AM

That's how i used to create drums too, a hell of a job and crazy time consuming. What they write about AD i can agree with, but when you want to integrate it into the music it tends to get tricky and then most of the kits are useless.