Need help with gearin up [doom] (guitar/bass)

[Connzo]

Yo all, I suck at gear and I'm also brand new to this website and stuff. I do need some help however, I'm seeking a direction to look towards for an amp that can be sufficient in the doom metal genre for both guitar and bass. I am lookin for something with some serious noise but i do have a limited budget unfortunately. That may sound broad, but again I am not too gear savvy. Some real crunchy doomness would be great, rock on.

[Hemisaurus]

Pretty much any 100W tube amp and a 2x15 cab.

Because, 2x15 is enough to handle bass, but can also do guitar

[mortlock]

..id go 4x10 or single 15 and a 2x10..

[moose23]

I'd rather go with a bass 4x12 if it's gonna be used for both instruments but yeah any decent 100 watt head will do for both. As per usual old Peavey tube heads are your friend.

[The Riffer]

"Limited" budget is alot of grey area.
I will second the old peavey stuff. IF you're vigilant, you'll be able to put together a huge rig for 500 bucks. IF you use pedals , don't worry if it has a SS or tube preamp. If you run direct, I'd look for a tube preamp peavey.
Old Acoustic stuff would handle both pretty well, if you use pedals...An old Sunn SS might also be in your pricerange. To my ears, the 15's do both guitar and bass better than 10's. Your ears may be different. Finding a good 12" bass cabinet might not be easy, but that would be a great find if you did..

[Mr. Foxen]

Make sure, if you get a bass cab, that it doesn't have a tweeter. Tweeters really disagree with guitar. I'd be inclined to get separate cabs, if you have the space, they come up cheap because people want the space so it isn't a massive cost. I use 100w heads suitable for guitar or bass, and pick a cab as appropriate.

[Hemisaurus]

Tweeters are easily disconnected, a lot have an off switch too.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/msg/2755369030.html
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/msg/2764970207.html

couple of nice cheap cabs, though the Crate is a tad high to me.

Buy a Peavey Windsor or Bugera 1960 or something in the $399 range from musiciansfriend, if you can't find anything used in the amp line.

[justinhedrick]

yep, there is good gear out there on the cheap.

if you have $500-$600 to spend, you could get a pretty awesome rig:

$300 for a used
$150-$200 for a used cab
$100 for a used fuzz pedal

I also recommend getting 15s in a cab. they sound good for both things.

[Hemisaurus]

Or $23 for a new pedal.



I looked for a decent YouTube demo of this, but they all sucked, but here's someone using one to cover Dopesmoker.

[zachoff]

Problem w/ a 100W head is it's not really enough for bass... Especially in this style of music.  I'd say get at least a 200W bass head.

I have an 70s Earth (Peavey copy) head that sounds alright for guitar and bass.  My guit player's used it in a pinch and while it's got nothing on his V4 it worked and in the mix you'll not really notice a huge difference and it drives my 810 just fine.

For your cab, get a bass cab.  A 410 or a 215 will work but the 410 will most likely be louder.  Those old Peavey 1810 and 1820 cabs are wicked cheap but don't sound the best.  If I were you I'd look for a Peavey 410TVX or even a 412TVX.  They're heavy, but sound pretty damn good and can be had for super cheap.

Don't play bass through a guitar cab at high volume.  You'll blow the speakers.

[Mr. Foxen]

Tweeters are easily disconnected, a lot have an off switch too.

There is a broad generalisation that cabs without tweeters tend toward toppier speakers, so better off with one that comes without, than one with a disconnected tweeter. The Aguilar GS412 cab I had claimed a high freq response due to tweeter but the speakers were so dark it would be totally useless for guitar. Something like an early SVT cab has pretty much guitar speakers in it, so plenty of top (they had a period of using really dark speakers that sucked though)

[justinhedrick]

If I were you I'd look for a Peavey 410TVX or even a 412TVX.  They're heavy, but sound pretty damn good and can be had for super cheap.

agreed. our bass player has the 410tvx and our drummer owns the 412tvx (both of them are the cosmetic styling from the early 2000s).

they sound awesome with sludgy bass (and our drummer actually uses his on guitar as well)

[Hemisaurus]

 

[Hemisaurus]

Problem w/ a 100W head is it's not really enough for bass... Especially in this style of music.  I'd say get at least a 200W bass head.

I think it depends on the cab. I used to be of the same opinion, I played 100W tube heads live but always found them wanting, but I'm currently pairing 100W Crate head (tube) and a single 15" and drowning people out, not using effects, and playing a 5 string bass. It's not too middy either, and I am getting plenty bass.

I've concluded either my previous opinion was wrong, or my current setup is magic, somedays I lean toward the latter conclusion

[zachoff]

Problem w/ a 100W head is it's not really enough for bass... Especially in this style of music.  I'd say get at least a 200W bass head.

I think it depends on the cab. I used to be of the same opinion, I played 100W tube heads live but always found them wanting, but I'm currently pairing 100W Crate head (tube) and a single 15" and drowning people out, not using effects, and playing a 5 string bass. It's not too middy either, and I am getting plenty bass.

I've concluded either my previous opinion was wrong, or my current setup is magic, somedays I lean toward the latter conclusion

Yeah, I dunno.  I had a Crate 1x15 combo (BX100) and it was worthless.  I also had an old Bassman 135 tube head that was too weak for my current band through the 2x15 dual showman cab.  Probably depends on the head & cab, but when those Bassmans start to distort they really fall apart... Unusable 'fart' tone.  That usually happened to me around '7' in my experience.  Anyway, those are the only two 100W heads I've used in a band and neither of them worked... Maybe there's something out there that will & you found it. 

[grimniggzy]

Old Acoustic stuff would handle both pretty well, if you use pedals...An old Sunn SS might also be in your pricerange.

Def 2 awesome options if you can find them within your price range.

And to add to the 100 watt discussion. It really does depend on the head/cab combo. Sunn Beta's are 100W SS and I'd consider them more than satisfactory for guitar or bass in a band with the right cab.

[RAGER]

OP is nowhere to be found.

[Hemisaurus]

Hmm, trying to think, Finn in Holocaust used John's old JCM800 and a single PA 15" cab, I think it was a 15" it might have been an 18" and that was plenty loud.

I used a Carvin X100B through a Peavey 2x15 and it was nice, but a bit wanting.

The Traynor YBA-200 I had (well the two I had) were both pathetic through any cab, and they are supposedley a bass amp. Terrible amps.

I've used a JCM900 and it was a little hard to get bass from it, likewise a Fender Evil Twin with the internal speakers bypassed obviously.

I think older Marshall's before they started trying to get that metal tone, and cutting all the bass out are probably good, old Marshall's and Laney's used to sound good, even through a 4x12. Graphic Oranges and Sound City's back before tubes had a renaissance and everyone stopped buying solid state.

Valveking was OK, but lacked power, likewise the Laney AOR but that was a 50, Windsor fairly nice, but I was scared those stock tubes would melt, it wasn't mine so I didn't push it. Bugera 333XL was a ripping sound, and I think it's a clone of the Peavey XXL?

I definitely think, for bass, the cab is key, for guitar not so much, you can play a 4x12 on a baffle board and it'll sound OK if you EQ it right.

[Mr. Foxen]

YBA200 just needs the valves sorting out then they are ok, uninspiring and bland, but they work better, new pre valves help and sorting the bias in the power section is the last piece. doesn't bring it up to proper vintage valve amp standard, but its much lighter.

[Hemisaurus]

Now, if only I thought to do a valve job, wait a minute, I did

They are just boring sounding amps, most of the current tube bass head selection are pretty boring. Bass amp designers seem to think we, the bass playing public, just want a clean sound all the time, we don't, I want an overdriven tube sound, from tubes, I don't want to have to throw a pedal in front of it.

I blame all these slap and funk players

[zachoff]

I thought the Peavey VB-2 had some balls for the 10 minutes I played it, but you're right...  The current lineup of bass tube heads is generally pretty sterile.

[Hemisaurus]

What did you play it through? I was going through some Peavey 4x10 using a nice passive 5 string, and I could not get it to break up, just fart a bit.

It seems that older amps were designed to go to 11 and give you that little bit break up where nowadays they go to 6.5 and call that 10

Just my opinion is, if I spend all this cash on tubes, I want them to sound tubey, if I wanted clean I can get a solid state for much cheaper.

[zachoff]

Fender P into an Acoustic 410 at GC a couple years ago.  Basically set it up like my SVT... Mids bumped to about 2:00 but bass and treble at 12.  Mid shift at 800 w/ the clean gain cranked.  The overdrive is a little over the top for me for regular tone but you can get some decent disto with it as far as I remember.

[Connzo]

Whoa, sorry guys, just got back to my computer and didn't realize there would be so many replies. Thanks by the way... But from what I see is tubes are the best way to go for what I am lookin for (correct me if i'm wrong)? If so, then i would just need a good tube head and a decent cabb right? But if thats the case then i will just have to narrow down all these suggestions

[Hemisaurus]

Most cases let your budget be your guide, get a ballpark idea, I want 100W tube head and a 1x15 or 2x15 or 4x12, and see what you can find that fits.