Kemper profiling/modeling a Soldano amp: will digital amps ever get there?

[everdrone]

Kemper is a profiling amp, it can profile any amp that you can mike, and then you can record/play at very low volumes (for apartments this is great):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZfk5sz82A

[Hemisaurus]

This is how all modellers work, the difference here is you can do it yourself, which sort of makes sense if you have a particular amp you want to clone, but I'd imagine for 90% of the people who buy a modeller, it's because they can't afford / find the amp they want.

If you need to have an expensive set of mics, a studio environment AND an amp to sample, it seems to defeat the purpose. Be good for people who don't want to take their amps on the road, and have the money to spend on getting their amps sampled in a nice studio. I think on the whole the other modellers are probably better of because they do a more thorough job of analysing the amp response.

Just my .02c, and I use a modeller all the time.

[everdrone]

cool man, I did not think of it that way, great insights there

I use modelers a lot, just got the tech 21 oxford sansamp analog modeler I use with IRs

no digital amp that I have found is THE SAME or even 95% close to the real amp after processing the mix. especially fuzz and very organic amps like my Orange Thunderverb 50. 

I really just want a single modeler that is extremely close to an amp like my Orange Thunderverb, I really only do enough playing to fit one style of amp

like, a supercomputer for my one amp. or, the perfect advanced version of the Rivera Silent Sister isocab.  or, neighbors that just comply with my wishes 

[Hemisaurus]

If you are only after one tone, or one amp, it might be easier just to get someone to build you something with a similar preamp / tonestack, and a small power section (I'm guessing you want it for practice or recording). Kind of like Bumbox do for Marshalls, there's a few builders on here, and a low watt amp should cost you considerably less than a larger model.

Basically something with all the same knobs, and 1/100th of the power range, yeah?

From my experience, recording the direct output of the modeller still does not sound quite as good as it sounds mic'd from the modeller running through a power amp and cab. Which is a little odd, as I do leave speaker modelling on, when running through a cab, I guess it's just the sound I want. In fact I find the speaker modelling selection to be as vast a tone selector, as the amp models, just switching the modelled cab gives it a massively different sound.

[bitter]

I imagine you're right with bass, but on modelers I've used with guitars, most of the speaker options tend to add fizzyness.

Normally I would stick to the 4x12 settings and that would normally sound the best/least fizzy.

[Hemisaurus]

I've had Freightshakin Bob record with it, through my desk, into ProTools, with him just wearing headphones, and he likes it, I forget what speaker cab model we used though. Fizziness can be countered by the magical thing called the tone knob

[El Zombre]

Do you actually have to profile an amp yourself? Seems from the intro of that video that they were just showing you how they build models of various amps - models that will be included in the final product. Kinda like a behind the scene video at a recording session for an album.

[mutantcolors]

Basically something with all the same knobs, and 1/100th of the power range, yeah?

This could get me shot here, but I'm thinking a 1watt JCM800 clone would be the sickness. And I am down with the sickness.

[Hemisaurus]

Then I think you want the Bumbox, the one in the other post is a linkee 

[everdrone]

Basically something with all the same knobs, and 1/100th of the power range, yeah?

This could get me shot here, but I'm thinking a 1watt JCM800 clone would be the sickness. And I am down with the sickness.

lol I agree with yall, but not for $800 for that jcm800 1 watter that is coming out this summer

I am trying my Tech 21 Oxford into my Epiphone valve junior tonite, it sounds pretty br00talz, at low volumes too. Recently I have been using recabinet and oxford/lepoulin, but I like the valve junior.  IRs are just different. Ill post a clip tommorrow, cheers :-)

[everdrone]

Do you actually have to profile an amp yourself? Seems from the intro of that video that they were just showing you how they build models of various amps - models that will be included in the final product. Kinda like a behind the scene video at a recording session for an album.

no, you can trade profiles, and Kemper comes with profiles when you buy it. but other people's profiles are not gonna be done in a hi-fi recording amp booth with super expensive microphones or anything.  And also maybe your playing the guitar will affect the tone of the profile as you play guitar and give it its ammo for its weaponry

[Ranbat]

Personally, I think Line 6 has done a great job with modeling. Will any modeling company ever be able to convert a hardcore tube amp user? No. I like tube and solid state, so I'm more easily convinced. With the Kemper though, somebody that loves their vintage tube amp that is afraid to take it on the road, will probably dig this. I can see this being more of a professional tool than for the average player.

[lordfinesse]

I had a band with one of those Kempers last week. When I first saw it, I was pretty excited. It looked so interesting, I had high hopes. Got it set up, cue'ed it up in headphones.. disappointed. It coulda been any Line6 I've heard. In all fairness though, maybe that's what his amp sounds like, and what he wanted. Honestly, I've never heard a modeling amp that I thought sounded very good. Maybe I'm just old

[everdrone]

I had a band with one of those Kempers last week. When I first saw it, I was pretty excited. It looked so interesting, I had high hopes. Got it set up, cue'ed it up in headphones.. disappointed. It coulda been any Line6 I've heard. In all fairness though, maybe that's what his amp sounds like, and what he wanted. Honestly, I've never heard a modeling amp that I thought sounded very good. Maybe I'm just old

ya it seems like engineers are definitely in agreement about this sort of thing

I just want my orange thunderverb at bedroom quiet apartment volumes with pedals, and would pay the $2000 for it if it sounded 96% similar to that amp or a similar organic/dynamic amp.  but I am not $2000 excited about the axefx or kemper yet.

[mawso]

Basically something with all the same knobs, and 1/100th of the power range, yeah?

This could get me shot here, but I'm thinking a 1watt JCM800 clone would be the sickness. And I am down with the sickness.

marshall had exactly that at NAMM

[everdrone]

Basically something with all the same knobs, and 1/100th of the power range, yeah?

This could get me shot here, but I'm thinking a 1watt JCM800 clone would be the sickness. And I am down with the sickness.

marshall had exactly that at NAMM

ya, it would be cool to have one, rumor is it costs $800 per head, there are youtube videos,

I have a demo of my tech 21 character series oxford with recabinet IRs here: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11496221

i am working on more tech 21 demos, I have a more thrashy one in the queue that I am using with my my tech 21 character series oxford, Ill post it today...

[everdrone]

also just for fun,

I wont tell you which is which yet, but one of the clips uses an ampsim analog pedal. The other clip uses a free digital ampsim.

http://soundcloud.com/earthalliance      (click here to listen to the two clips entitled no1 and no2)

1) tell me which clip sounds better
2) guess which one uses the analog-pedal and which one doesnt
3) do you think the clip that sounds better is worth paying a one-time cost of $170 for?

Ill let yall know later which one uses the pedal and which one doesnt, and what kind of pedal and ampsim they are, and where to get the digital ampsim for free.

I am trying to figure out if I should return this $170 pedal to get refund minus stocking fee to guitarcenter.  Not sure yet.  I posted in tipsNclips but figured it is "an amp" and I need all the help I can get.

Any responses and insights are much appreciated, cheers

[Jake]

Although I don't think one sounds "better" than the other, I like the sound of No2.

It's got a much more over-the-top, aggressive, attacking sound that I think works well with the riff being played.

[everdrone]

Here is my new thrashy song, all guitars are done with Tech 21 oxford character pedal and thru my ephiphone valve junior at very low "angry neighbor" apartment volumes:

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11530334

Although I don't think one sounds "better" than the other, I like the sound of No2.

It's got a much more over-the-top, aggressive, attacking sound that I think works well with the riff being played.

Thanks man! I like no2 too!  I better post the result, not sure how many more views this thread will get:

Thanks so much for the feedback and insights, I know this forum is FULL OF AUDIOPHILES THAT CARE ABOUT TONAL NUANCES LIKE ME, I would prolly guess like this too if I did not use digital ampsims for all those years, many thanks for the insights

the free plugin is the Hybritt, it and others can be downloaded for free here:

http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

I think it is very good

here are the recording details:

-------no1: (I labeled it - a soundcloud user could click on the "share" button to see the address is
http://soundcloud.com/earthalliance/no1-doomhybrittpoulinampsim )  recabinet IRs, lepouplugin hybritt, ozone 5 for mastering, metal foundry, ezmixII for bass, and my typical reaper plugins for eq and reverb

-------no2 (I labeled it - a soundcloud user could click on the "share" button to see the address is http://soundcloud.com/earthalliance/no2-doomoxfordorangepedal  )  recabinet IRs, TECH 21 OXFORD CHARACTER SERIES PEDAL, ozone 5 for mastering, metal foundry, ezmixII for bass, and my typical reaper plugins for eq and reverb

-------song "Dance with the Devil" http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11496221  : no cocked wah was used.  I use my wah though on some of my other digital recordings such as this funk song of mine: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9941179   I used TECH 21 OXFORD CHARACTER SERIES PEDAL, EZMIXII for compression on guitar, ezmixII for all bass, metal foundry, ozone5 for mastering, I used recabinet for rhythym guitar and my typical reaper plugins for eq and reverb, but I used the original cabinet simulation that came with the Oxford Character Series Pedal for the guitar solo and put an ezmix plugin on the guitarsolo to give it that extensive delay.

Cheers all, I like my pedal and am keeping it so far but the warranty has not run out SO ANY TYPE OF FURTHER INSIGHTS/VOTING AT ALL IS MUCH APPRECIATED, thanks for the listens :beerchug: