generator parties, warehouse parties etc.

mawso · July 27, 2012, 05:58:20 AM

I know a few guys in bands who are keen to set up private parties where our bands all play, and we all invite our friends etc.

When we do gigs around here, we have to sort out the bands ourselves, and bring all the people, so it kinda makes sense just to do it all ourselves.. and not have to deal with all the bullshit of playing at venues, and be able to bring our own drinks and party hard all weekend etc. Something similar to what a lot of psy trance fans do, but with rad bands instead of with DJs

We're also kinda inspired by the whole generator party thing that Kyuss used to do etc.

I'm wondering who has actually done this kinda thing. Getting shit sounding good for a band is obviously a different thing to setting things up for a DJ to press play - it doesn't need to be as crystal clear as listening to a CD at home, but it'd be good to actually hear the music. is it realistic to be able to sound treat (not sound proof) an empty warehouse or whatever, well enough to be able to hear the music, the day before? or what about playing outside with a generator? what do you do when it rains?

MichaelZodiac · July 27, 2012, 06:55:32 AM

I once went to a generator party where the Belgian band Amenra played, they were supposed to play a festival but the electricity of the festival broke down when they started. They went to pick up a generator and made some flyers, handed those out to festivalgoers during the day and played in a forest nearby the festival grounds after the last band had played their set. At first there weren't many people there but they played so loud more and more people came, at the end there were people sitting in trees etc. They played loud enough so you didn't hear the generator, I think that's the main key.

Lumpy · July 27, 2012, 07:02:21 AM

Quote from: mawso on July 27, 2012, 05:58:20 AMis it realistic to be able to sound treat (not sound proof) an empty warehouse or whatever, well enough to be able to hear the music, the day before?

I have no experience with a party like this, but to treat the space you'd want to have absorbing material there. Could be couches, heavy curtains, rugs on the floor, mattresses leaning against the wall, that type of thing..

You could also be fine without it as well. Audio guys are always talking about how you need to reduce null areas or places in the room where certain frequencies spike or drop. But concert attendees are also able to find their own best mix in the room by walking around (want more bass? stand over there) and it's welcome to have areas where the music isn't so fucking loud. Perfect sound quality isn't mandatory to put on a heavy rock show.

I wish I could figure out a place to do this in NYC but I imagine an instant police response due to noise complaints, local kids sneaking in and disrupting things, etc.

mawso · July 27, 2012, 07:54:53 AM

Quote from: Lumpy on July 27, 2012, 07:02:21 AM
Quote from: mawso on July 27, 2012, 05:58:20 AMis it realistic to be able to sound treat (not sound proof) an empty warehouse or whatever, well enough to be able to hear the music, the day before?

I have no experience with a party like this, but to treat the space you'd want to have absorbing material there. Could be couches, heavy curtains, rugs on the floor, mattresses leaning against the wall, that type of thing..

You could also be fine without it as well. Audio guys are always talking about how you need to reduce null areas or places in the room where certain frequencies spike or drop. But concert attendees are also able to find their own best mix in the room by walking around (want more bass? stand over there) and it's welcome to have areas where the music isn't so fucking loud. Perfect sound quality isn't mandatory to put on a heavy rock show.

I wish I could figure out a place to do this in NYC but I imagine an instant police response due to noise complaints, local kids sneaking in and disrupting things, etc.

Yeah, I think figuring out the place is crucial. And I think that means going to out-of-the-way places. Places in industrial areas that are pretty much completely empty on the weekend.

The way that Kyuss and everyone else in that scene used to do it, from what I gather, was they'd all just gather in a location with a generator and party til the cops broke it up. I'd probably be into that if I was 19, but I'm 30 and a few of the other dudes keen on this plan are older. I just don't think we can be bothered with the hassle of playing cat and mouse with the police. So I think it's more likely gonna come down to hiring a disused warehouse or factory or whatever for the weekend, and paying a few dollars for the privilege, and then maybe asking everyone who shows up to throw in ten bucks or whatever to defray the cost of venue and equipment hire. Still way cheaper than going out to bars to see bands, and you can bring your own drinks and food and whatever else you're into, and there's no worries about closing time or idiots showing up or whatever.

I went to a party in a decommissioned army supply depot last month. Some 85 kilometres out of town. It was on a big, well fenced in property that was mostly used as a storage facility. Well away from prying eyes and you could make as much noise as you want. It was set up for DJs but I'm hoping we could make it work for bands.

The Riffer · July 27, 2012, 10:24:32 AM

Generator gigs would be the kick in the ass I need to get another band together. Soooo not into playing in bars any longer.

Baltar · July 27, 2012, 11:15:48 AM

I've done a gennie party. It was over 10 years ago with the Sons of Serro in 29 Palms. We were pushing 3 stacks and everything was brought in with 4x4's and a trailer. Capt Yarn set up the traps and amps on the trailer and it was killer. Sand soaked up a lot of the noise. Good times.

Skydogdiesel (Chris) from Galaxies in the River and I have been talking about more venues underground, warehouse, artist studio, skateparks. Toronto bars and clubs are going the pay-to-play route.

fallen · July 27, 2012, 01:19:00 PM

I have played shows in a lot of crappy places that were not meant for music and most of the time the sound wasn't a big problem but we did play one cavernous place where the sound would have been terrible but at that time we had an engineer friend that was like a 6th member of the band for a while.

He used a spectrum analyzer and a million band graphic EQ, ran a bunch of white and pink noise through the PA at full volume and dialled out all the shrillness of the room with the EQ until the analyzer showed a basically flat line across all frequencies. Best sound we ever had. The liveliness of the room just made us sound bigger.

For a small PA off a generator it's even easier, especially since you'll have the venue all day. If you all have good amps just mic the vocals and bass drum, turn up and have someone stand in the middle of the room and help you adjust your volumes until it sounds good. Once there are people in the room it will only sound better.

Once you have the sound sorted out I would make sure that all vocalists go to the music store and buy a couple of those foam wind blocker things for the mics. Always good to have in any situation where the grounding might be sketchy. I have been shocked a few times and it usually starts part way through the set once the mic gets a bit wet with spit.

Another reason I always carried my own SM58 to shows.

clockwork green · July 27, 2012, 03:34:48 PM

I've been wanting to do this for awhile. I'd like to do full fledged shows both in indoors and out plus I'd also like to do some live recordIngs including video in some of the more interesting locations especially on some of the cliffs on the California coast where a forest will just stop at a 300' drop.

justinhedrick · July 27, 2012, 04:57:11 PM

I was thinking of this same thing the other day. especially with myself and my friends bands getting older. I think i am actually going to put on a show and have some bands and friends out, and have a potluck.

jibberish · July 28, 2012, 11:03:22 AM

i already got the generator

. i have been dialling my ghetto PA in but im not liking the 8" speaker on my awesome little dean markley combo amp. it mics nice, but it needs more fatness. sounds like a tin can outside heh.

stereo effects are awesome outdoors when the PA speakers are spread decently and the main guitar combo amp with the mic is kept dry in the center of the stereo soundfield. I am all set on that part. i just dont like how tinny that little amp speaker sounds...may start shopping a cab for it( and eventually use it for a small tube amp)

i bought a second Behringer 12ch mixer. now we can do some shit with 2 mixers. I'm THIS close to doing my first "outlaw pirate generator jam" somewhere around here.

next up , a QSC power amp to really drive my custom "Kicker" powered modified speakers. my speakers now can do 200w continuous, so i definitely will snag like a 250/350w/ch amp as my PA amp. I used $80 6" drivers and holy shit do they wail. 2 in each speaker. the speakers are still manageable sized, yet can play unbelievable bass frequencies and are clean thru the mids since they are fast responding. they sound perfect for low-powered rig sound fill from the PA and will have tremendous headroom to maintain a powerful sound even though it isnt screaming loud.

nonoman · July 28, 2012, 12:35:37 PM

Quote from: justinhedrick on July 27, 2012, 04:57:11 PM
I was thinking of this same thing the other day. especially with myself and my friends bands getting older. I think i am actually going to put on a show and have some bands and friends out, and have a potluck.

Sounds like a plan.

ryansummit · July 29, 2012, 12:14:57 AM

honda makes a generator, the EU mode i think
thats super quiet and efficient, and the company generac makes knockoffs
sold in northern tool catalog or online for cheaper
we use them in residential areas at night especially
not to sound like old fart but I REMEMBER WHEN...
punk rock shows in the early 90s seein shows in every nook of the earth
basements, abandon buildings, warehouses, the woods, rooftops
where someones dads loud as hell crappy generator was louder than the loudest prActice amp
any of the bands were playin through
and drunk as a skunk or not, everyone had a good time
the best times, matter of fact
do it so some 15 yr old kid can write about it on the internet when hes 34, HE WILL REMEMBER YOU!!

mawso · July 29, 2012, 01:38:19 AM

Quote from: ryansummit on July 29, 2012, 12:14:57 AM

do it so some 15 yr old kid can write about it on the internet when hes 34, HE WILL REMEMBER YOU!!

actually that DOES really appeal to me, hahaha. "I was THERE man!". but more to the point, hopefully there'd be a more immediate impact. if we made it work just a couple of times and everyone had a rad time, we might see other people keen to do the same thing too. and then there'd be a really cool scene of places to play, or just to go see bands. i'm actually still enthusiastic about playing bars too - but there'd be so much scope to do some awesome shit at this kind of party that bands just usually don't have time for in their 40 minute set. long instrumental jams, or getting people from other bands up to jam on a particular song,

anyway yeah thanks for all that dudes, this is all good info

the more i talk about it with some of the other bands, the more it seems like the way forward might be to find a paddock outside town on private property that we can hire, and set up a generator and a barbecue and some kind of shelter in case it rains, and then just camp out for the weekend. might need some sort of loo i guess, haha.

when i've talked to some dudes about this stuff, several of them have actually said something along the lines of "yeah, I've been wanting to do that for a while!" - so there's guys out there who've been keen to do it, just nobody has realised that there are a whole lot of other guys keen on the idea too

re: the generators, seems like a few of you know a lot more about those than i do. how much juice do you normally need from a generator to run some loud valve amps and a vocal PA? how easy are these things to use safely, and how much scope is there to kill yourself on the voltages present by doing something dumb? when they run out of fuel, is it quick to fill them back up again and get things going again, or is that a major pain?

Metal and Beer · July 29, 2012, 02:57:24 PM

We should fight over generator's operation instructions !!1!

Modern generators are designed so that the (mostly) dumbest dumbshit won't fry hisse'f; despite the glorious shitstorm in the Jam Room a few months back, these new 'rators are basically push-a-button affairs. Add up your juice requirements, get the proper 'rator and start rockin'.

/kickstart a new shitstorm

I,Galactus · July 30, 2012, 08:57:53 AM

Quote from: Metal and Beer on July 29, 2012, 02:57:24 PM
/kickstart a new shitstorm

SET GROUND STAKES EVERY DAY. NO FUCKS GIVEN.

jibberish · July 30, 2012, 09:36:50 AM

once you add up the max power draws of all the gear, add another 25%-30% to the total and get that big of a generator or a bit bigger. they work better when not fully loaded down. too big of a generator is ok except the wasted fuel. and really i started doing the math. you would have to hook up a ton of stuff to pull 20 amps so even a 1500watt that maybe is realistically good for 10 amps coud run a couple of 100w stacks ok, mixers lights combo amps. i went with a 2200w so i could use it for other stuff like a normal 20amp house circuit would be used.

LULZ ..oh you guys and your shitstormz.. we got that sorted out. no one should have any more questions about it after that thread heh.

mawso · July 30, 2012, 11:44:33 AM

lol sorry. i actually didn't see that thread so i didn't realise i was putting my foot in it

I have no idea how much juice an amp needs. i know they're rated for a certain amount of power, but that's the output and not the consumption. obviously they're far from perfectly efficient and valve amps in particular give off lots of heat. And then when it comes to PAs I have even less idea.

Generators for hire around here mostly seem to come in about 6000 watts, which i guess would be heaps?

Submarine · July 31, 2012, 09:47:27 AM

Just some real world electrical numbers: Full concert PA system (theater/arena sizes) needs 200amps 3 phase - this includes backline power.
Depending on lighting and video requirements your are looking at 400-600amps 3 phase.

Jake · July 31, 2012, 01:13:27 PM

For the record, the OP spelled "whorehouse" wrong in the thread title.

Metal and Beer · July 31, 2012, 02:30:27 PM

Quote from: Jake on July 31, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
For the record, the OP spelled "whorehouse" wrong in the thread title.

...and "gender rater"

VOLVO))) · July 31, 2012, 03:00:38 PM

Pound ground spikes eer day. 420mA

mortlock · August 01, 2012, 12:09:12 AM

its my experience that the underground shows are the best shows..

mortlock · August 01, 2012, 12:59:56 AM

basement shows, skate parks, back yards..thats the shit right there. the stage and lights and big PA of a cool music venue are great too but in a different vibe..the point is to play every show you can. thats what seperates the men from the boys..

jibberish · August 01, 2012, 01:10:16 AM

Quote from: mortlock on August 01, 2012, 12:59:56 AM
thats what seperates the men from the boys..

i would have guessed "crowbar" but oh well

(spelling tip: sep A rat.....anyway thats how i always make sure i go with the a vs the e, doing something to "a rat". hth, not being obnoxious)

jibberish · August 01, 2012, 01:16:06 AM

oh yeah, back on topic. the really safe way to add up draws is to use the fuse ratings on each piece of gear.

if you see a 3A fuse on a 100w marshall, you know that puppy draws 300+ watts possibly, and as mentioned, tubes make heat, transformers make heat. nothing is 100% efficient which would waste zero juice as heat watts.

quick rule of thumb when using 120VAC gear is 1 amp =100watts (actually 120watts, but por a quick add it works to get you into the ballpark)

so if i have 2 100w stacks and some 50w monitors, maybe that whole mess pulls 9amps. you are talking 900w(really more like 1100) and that 1500w generator could run that. but add lights, ancillary gear, a PA and maybe you do need 3x that and maybe the 6000w job on wheels is the right call.

edit: i can safely underestimate since im using the fuse ratings. the gear will never reach this draw under normal use, even cranked, so there is the built-in safety margin.