The Jam Room Blog Thread.

[Pissy]

I did some digging and it sounds like Gibson has been doing the swiss cheese thing since the early '80s at least on some models. Part of it is supposedly due to them having a harder time getting lighter mahogany.



http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/weight-relief-gibson-les-paul-guitars-0615-2012.aspx

You want an SG that's had the guts replaced and therefore  should cost a little less. Headstock repaired well could make it even more affordable. Then look for pickups that bring out low mids, not simply low end because that turns to mud real quick. Mud isn't heavy , mud is mud.

[Pissy]

The amp is going to make up about 70% of your sound though. Billy Gibbon's les Paul in your hands through a shitty sounding amp is gonna sound like a shitty setup.

So make sure your quad EL34 based tube amp has real iron transformers and 3 knobs max pushing 4 12" Swamp Thangs or Man O Wars. Preferably in a 16 ohm configuration to utilize the entire beautiful richness of that genuine iron transformer. 

[liquidsmoke]

Had a very close look at some '14 and newer pauls today. Couldn't believe how light they are. I'd rather have an SG than a chambered or 'modern weight relief' LP. I don't want a 12 or 13 pounder but what is the point in an 8 if you don't particularly care about that body shape? I'm not saying they sound bad, I see bands use them on a fairly regular basis but no. And the fit and finish on some of them does not look good. I like the look of the '60s tribute SG but otherwise I'd get something older. I'm not paying $700 for a beat to shit standard though. I'll figure something out, I won't be seriously recording for many months.

I like my Swamp Thangs a lot. My Carvin head doesn't have the headroom I'd like for live use but it's fine for recording. Got any suggestions for pickups that bring out low mids? For the project I'm working on now I prefer low to medium output as it seems to be smoother with lots of dirt. High output pups and less distortion doesn't offer the same sound in my experience.

[Pissy]

Lots of choices. But at the end of the day, having them set up well is going to make the most difference. I think most people that aren't happy with their pickups don't have them set up well and at the right height. My SG sounded way muddy when the pickups were too low. I took it to a really good setup guy here in town and it's a completely different guitar than it was when I brought it to him. Mine are t-tops I think. Stock anyways and it's a '77 model standard.  Sounds bitchen now.

[Danny G]

SXSW is already here. Jesus.

Playing a day gig with Deann Rene Band 2:15 at Darwins (fully backlined!) then Ocean of Stars 8pm at Key Bar. Thursday night Adrian Conner headlines Key Bar. Friday Adrian plays Dogwood at 3pm for a cool day party then hauling ass to Houston to play with Bleu Edmondson. Saturday could feasibly play a set with my lady if I get back in time. Sunday Bleu is playing Willies in Buda (yes that is a real town) for his manager's birthday.

This on top of gigs with Bleu Friday and Saturday (with new guitarist and added keys player). Sunday day gig with Thunderosa followed by 3-song session with Taking Back Thaxton. Had Monday and Tuesday during the day off but rehearsals both nights (Adrian last night and TBT which I am currently at.)

SXSWhy do I do this to myself. But you should see Gian Ortiz's schedule. It's truly insane #hero


Sent from a can on some string using Tapatalk

[liquidsmoke]

Lots of choices. But at the end of the day, having them set up well is going to make the most difference. I think most people that aren't happy with their pickups don't have them set up well and at the right height. My SG sounded way muddy when the pickups were too low. I took it to a really good setup guy here in town and it's a completely different guitar than it was when I brought it to him. Mine are t-tops I think. Stock anyways and it's a '77 model standard.  Sounds bitchen now.

I've noticed that if my pickups are too close to the strings my tone can be too noisy. I experiment a lot with everything.

Just discovered that I left my head on for 24 hours... I'll see if it works tomorrow. 

[spookstrickland]

I did some digging and it sounds like Gibson has been doing the swiss cheese thing since the early '80s at least on some models. Part of it is supposedly due to them having a harder time getting lighter mahogany.



http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/weight-relief-gibson-les-paul-guitars-0615-2012.aspx

You want an SG that's had the guts replaced and therefore  should cost a little less. Headstock repaired well could make it even more affordable. Then look for pickups that bring out low mids, not simply low end because that turns to mud real quick. Mud isn't heavy , mud is mud.

What's the sound like in the different styles of clambering vs solid? More hollow more feedback?

[zachoff]

First show with the new(ish) band finally scheduled for April 9th.  Streets of London in Denver.  Should be a good damn time.

[mortlock]

nice.   

[Pissy]

Lots of choices. But at the end of the day, having them set up well is going to make the most difference. I think most people that aren't happy with their pickups don't have them set up well and at the right height. My SG sounded way muddy when the pickups were too low. I took it to a really good setup guy here in town and it's a completely different guitar than it was when I brought it to him. Mine are t-tops I think. Stock anyways and it's a '77 model standard.  Sounds bitchen now.

I've noticed that if my pickups are too close to the strings my tone can be too noisy. I experiment a lot with everything.

Just discovered that I left my head on for 24 hours... I'll see if it works tomorrow. 

Do you use the neck pickup?  You might get what you're after using that instead of the bridge. Also playing the bigger strings higher up on the neck contributes to that hefty tone it sounds like you're looking for.  If you experiment a lot, then I imagine you have noticed this, though.

[liquidsmoke]

Accidentally left my Carvin on standby for 24 hours. Update: now it makes a 'puft' sound every 3 or 4 seconds. If I place my hand on the top of it I notice a little bit of vibration that I don't think I did before. Otherwise it sounds the same but that puft thing isn't going to work for recording. Fantastic..

Do you use the neck pickup?  You might get what you're after using that instead of the bridge. Also playing the bigger strings higher up on the neck contributes to that hefty tone it sounds like you're looking for.  If you experiment a lot, then I imagine you have noticed this, though.

Have noticed this. Have also noticed that playing the same notes on the next string up lower down on the neck can make for more chug with palm mutes because the strings are vibrating more. Sometimes I blend in some of the neck pup for more thickness although it doesn't really provide that much more low end. Thinking about getting an Agile AL or a '13 Gibson SG '60s Tribute, something that might be worth putting money into if need be(fret work, etc). I should have invested in an SG Standard or LP Studio 15 years ago instead of a Faded SG(bat thick neck heavy) and then various cheap guitars.

[Pissy]

Hmmm. I might be able to help if you want an agile.  Neck I think is more like a 60s than a 50s. Sounds like up your alley.



Also, if you like thin necks, the Hagstroms are pretty thin. 

[VOLVO)))]

Scale length gets floppy with those. If they made me a 25.5 SG or LP, I'd be into it

[liquidsmoke]

Hmmm. I might be able to help if you want an agile.  Neck I think is more like a 60s than a 50s. Sounds like up your alley.



Also, if you like thin necks, the Hagstroms are pretty thin.  

Aside from the pick guard it looks very nice. Which model? About 10 lbs? Any uneven frets? Stock pups? Why do you want to sell it?

[liquidsmoke]

Scale length gets floppy with those. If they made me a 25.5 SG or LP, I'd be into it

25.5 only helps a little. I use a custom 14-68 set for A/A# these days. Can't believe I used 13-56 for A and B for so many years, now I'm in C# with those strings on one of my guitars.

[Pissy]

Hmmm. I might be able to help if you want an agile.  Neck I think is more like a 60s than a 50s. Sounds like up your alley.



Also, if you like thin necks, the Hagstroms are pretty thin.  

Aside from the pick guard it looks very nice. Which model? About 10 lbs? Any uneven frets? Stock pups? Why do you want to sell it?

Yeah about 10lbs or so. Never noticed any uneven frets, matter of fact this was the first never been touched guitar I'd ever played and I was amazed how nice it was to play mirror finished frets. Everything else I'd ever played was either used or off the shelf, so the frets had been scratched. I'll look at it tonight to decide and inspect.

I never play guitar anymore and if I did I'd be playing my SG. I bought it when I was feeling vulnerable during a 2 week lonely work trip.

[liquidsmoke]

Yeah about 10lbs or so. Never noticed any uneven frets, matter of fact this was the first never been touched guitar I'd ever played and I was amazed how nice it was to play mirror finished frets. Everything else I'd ever played was either used or off the shelf, so the frets had been scratched. I'll look at it tonight to decide and inspect.

I never play guitar anymore and if I did I'd be playing my SG. I bought it when I was feeling vulnerable during a 2 week lonely work trip.

Okay let me know. Is it an AL-2000? Set neck? I've heard good things about Agiles for years.

[Pissy]

3100 MAP I believe it was called. They change model names a lot.

3/4" maple top. Ebony fretboard. Bound set neck. Solid Mahogany. Intended to mimic a plain top tobacco burst. Bone nut. I don't think I've ever changed the strings on it. It didn't really have a place in my lineup so it's still very much like new.

[VOLVO)))]

I have a customer like you, LS. He reads all kinds of shit online posted by people who really don't know a damn thing about what they're talking about. You've NEVER been satisfied with anything you've had. I'm starting to think there isn't an instrument out there for you. You could probably spend a thousand bucks with me having one completely, from the ground up refretted, board radiused, neck reset, new wiring, new pickups, and still find something wrong with it. You're looking for perfection in 300$ guitars when you can't even get a perfect guitar for 3000$.

We play pretty similar music. Hell, a hundred thousand people play similar music. They all use either pure garbage, or the tried and true SG/LP/Tele/Strat/pointy guitar with too many amps combo. There seriously has to be a point where you're satisfied. Get a custom made or something. Where you have total control. 26.5 inch scale or something weird like that.

Hell, my main bass was 35$. It's a hondo copy of a Dano longhorn bass. It's got 6 strings, 105-80-78-65-56-45. That's just about as heavy as you can get. 34 inch scale length. But you know what? The dude from Conan plays a piece of shit Gibson melodymaker SG, one of the 300$ ones. Chip from the Body? A gretsch chet atkins with completely flat frets. The guys from Thou play off the shelf Gibbys.

[mortlock]

Hell, my main bass was 35$. It's a hondo copy of a Dano longhorn bass. It's got 6 strings, 105-80-78-65-56-45.

I was wondering what that was in the pics you posted. looks pretty cool.

[VOLVO)))]

Yeah, it was a bass originally. Someone else hacked the rest of the stuff in. I just finished it with parts from my parts bin. Sounds like thunder.

https://threshing.bandcamp.com/

Sounds just like a bass really, just has more strings and handles chords a lot better.

[Pissy]

I think Jake took the blunt short cut to the point I was eventually going to get to.

My bass and my SG weren't purchases I decided I wanted to go after, rather the result of circumstance. The bass I got in 96 from a dude that practiced in our building.  Our shit was stolen and he'd recently moved to guitar and let me borrow it, then hounded me (rightfully so) until I bought it. 92 music man stingray that I grew with.

The SG I took as payment when I worked as a screen printer. In 99 or so.  My buddy and boss had taken it as payment for work too, and he didn't care for it as much as his other guitar so I got it for pretty cheap. A week's paycheck or so. Headstock repaired 1977 square inlayed harmonica bridge neck volute Cherry SG.

I'm married to them in both cases because I played them for so long. This other stuff I got is just fringe shit to try out but nothing will replace the main instruments that ive grown attached to.

In that same spirit my sound (at least for bass) is very much my own, rather than something I had in my head at any point. I grew into that as well, and all I REALLY need is the bass and the amp to get it.  I use effects, but not inherent to my sound.

My gear is dialed for the most part too. If it ever isn't, it's obvious to me at least. My bass at the moment needs the nech adjusted and it's so apparent that we couldn't tune right the other night at BP.   A good setup is pretty critical, and a Gibson off the wall isn't going to be there. Not in my experience anyways. And when the guitar is right, holy shit that blew me away more than anything else I've ever bought. I took everything I wasn't ashamed of owning to get set up.

I would try to influence you to marry your instrument rather than casually date it roll in the hay with it and flip it back and forth, smack it's ass and trying every position in the kama sutra looking for something that blows your mind. If that makes any sense.

I say this only because it worked for me. Instead of constantly going after gear, I'm in sell mode, because I want for very little.

[Pissy]

That Carvin... X100 or whatever?

We had one years ago and there is a heat dissipating resistor with really short leads somewhere in there that got hot enough to melt the solder that held it in. Sprung right out of place.  Perhaps that's the issue here.  Lots of different sounds can come out of that head. Tons of dudes from differing styles play them.

[Pissy]

Looks like a new one costs less than I'd sell mine for. Here's one with a slim, compound radius neck. Aside from color, the only differences I can see are the maple top and this has a Tusq nut. Mine is bone from the factory.

http://www.rondomusic.com/3010secrcsbfslim.html.

[liquidsmoke]

Here we go again..

You've NEVER been satisfied with anything you've had.

Incorrect. I'm quite happy with my basses. I have been/am somewhat satisfied with some of my guitars. I'm not going to go through each one in detail. Generally I make do with what I have. Right now I need something better, that happens.

You're looking for perfection in 300$ guitars when you can't even get a perfect guitar for 3000$.

Incorrect. I've defended inexpensive guitars because they can play pretty good for the money. The main problem with them is that their pickups tend to be lacking and their frets often need work. You do your own fret work, that's great, I do not.

Get a custom made or something. Where you have total control. 26.5 inch scale or something weird like that.

No need. 24.75, 25.5, and 27 suit me well. 26.5 may be YOUR fix for the floppiness you recently mentioned.

Hell, my main bass was 35$.

Excellent.

The dude from Conan plays a piece of shit Gibson melodymaker SG, one of the 300$ ones. Chip from the Body? A gretsch chet atkins with completely flat frets. The guys from Thou play off the shelf Gibbys.

That's great. I've seen Pallbearer destroy with 'nu' 'shit' Faded SGs and with Teles.

All I really care about is comfort and tone. If it sounds good and feels right it is good. We are just moving air. Right now however I am in need of a quality guitar for recording and I don't want to spend money for fret work on something that isn't that good to start with. Rant about that if you want. Yes I want a really heavy sound and I'll admit that part of that is just for my own satisfaction when I'm playing by myself. True all of that crushing low end in that certain way you can't get just by turning the bass knob isn't always so great in the mix live or on recordings. Feel free to rant about that as well, I do my thing and need what I need. I'm a bit of a Goldilocks regarding many things in life, so be it.