Question about multitrack Dat recorders

[spookstrickland]

I was looking on ebay and see that old Elesis Adats are doing for about 100 bucks and Tascam d88 are going for about 250.  I was thinking about picking one up for recording my band.  I really hate computer based recording and good analog is way too much money for me right now.  I just want something that is just push button simple.

What do you think?  what should I be looking for in a dat machine what should I stay away from, what other gear to I need to make it work?

thanks

[jibberish]

stay away from adat. it is old and going away.

I had an old roland vs-880 8-track. well I still have it. the power section died, but it was my mixer, effects, editor right there. never crashed since it was a dedicated system, that thing was pure handy-dandy for everything

well the hard disk recorders have gotten incredibly awesome for incredibly cheap now.  getting rid of the hard drive for multi gig memory cards was big.
they have nice LCD screens now for editing

there is a Tascam 24track with a cd burner, effects, and an assload of other cool stuff including 8 mic pre's, 8 track simul recording...open box $459.
new on sale-$600-$700 maybe.  you cant buy a mixer, stereo effects unit, compressors, cd burner all for$500 either..oh ya, and recorder..

right here zsounds brand new $549 or w/e
http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASDP24


IMO, now IS the time to grab a HD recorder. also,l if any of you hav used pro tools(my pal has a nice pro tools setup.) that software and mac and all the other stuff makes clicks and ticks and is more of a pain to get stuff done then just on the HD recorder. it sounded nice as hell,(blueberry->Avalon pre-> forgot the high end a/d-> full mac pro/tools, Mackie monitors and mixer

edit: regarding what other gear you need: not a damn thing except maybe a usb cable and extra memory cards

[neighbor664]

DAT? Really,DAT?

You're funny!

[clockwork green]

I say go for it....buy them all while you're at it.

[spookstrickland]

I know they are not the best and on their way out but for 100 bucks of simple 8 track recording it might not be a bad deal.  I'm just trying to figure out what would be the best machine. Tascam? Elesis?  what model.

[jibberish]

these are tape machines that stripe digital. editing is clunky. alesis came out with it in early 80's. you could daisy chain like 10 for a whole studio.
you need tapes. they fuck up.

seriously, if you want to just hit record and do stereo, get an old hi-fi VHS VCR. those actually have great specs. we have discussed this before in threads.

if you really want to relax and do your recording, a mixer rules. plug shit in and out for any particular take. I just shot a price point up there. you can get little 4 tracks for $100 and nice old like Yamaha HD recorders for $200-$300

any of which, IMHO, would be so much more convenient and useful than adat.

[spookstrickland]

these are tape machines that stripe digital. editing is clunky. alesis came out with it in early 80's. you could daisy chain like 10 for a whole studio.
you need tapes. they fuck up.

seriously, if you want to just hit record and do stereo, get an old hi-fi VHS VCR. those actually have great specs. we have discussed this before in threads.

if you really want to relax and do your recording, a mixer rules. plug shit in and out for any particular take. I just shot a price point up there. you can get little 4 tracks for $100 and nice old like Yamaha HD recorders for $200-$300

any of which, IMHO, would be so much more convenient and useful than adat.

The vcr is cool but I want to be able to multimic a drum kit then mix it down later.  I have a good old peavey 12 channel mixer.  I'm just really opposed to anything computer based with little "menus" and what not.  I just want multitrack push button simplicity for under 200.

I thought if I could find a machine with low hours I could make some cheap pretty good sounding recordings.

[jibberish]

I see.    so you already are using a mixer.  the reason I suggested that Tascam is because you said "record the band". that thing can record 8 tracks at once. you plug all your shit into the 8 main inputs. funny how you need just about 8. you arm all 8 tracks for recording, then then tape deck like controls you hit pause/rec to meter while you set levels(never crap out digital, ie never cross to the + side of 0dB) and release pause, start playing

I don't think you understand how nearly impossible it is to do your mixdown recording live off a many-channel board. maybe you could cheat and compress/limit every channel to keep them all the same volume and dynamics, but thta's why you mix down multi tracks, so you can fuck with all the dynamics and actually get a good mix. EXCEPT now you have a real tape machine that just runs back and forth..

edit: wait, I see, you could mix down the 8 adat tracks with that mixer again to stereo. now you need a stereo recorder, more crap.. ok.. heh


i'm saying, combine that $250 adat machine+shipping+a pile of adat tapes, and use $200 from your xmas money and get that Tascam.  now you can do anything you want bam boom. editing is "non-linear" there is no rewind and fast forward. just instant memory access on the hard drive or memory card.
it weighs nothing since it is plastic and a couple smd PCB's. you have mixer, effects, effects loops 4 busses, eq/limit/comp. nice editing on the lcd screen for getting down and dirty. put different projects on different memory cards like floppy disks, burn CD's right from the Tascam since you were able to mix down your 24 track masters right on the machine. each of those 24 tracks probably has w/e 64 or 256 phantom trqacks for placing alternate takes. so once you pick the soloyou like, you swap that phantom track for the one you are really using, and none of those takes is destroyed, only pushed back in storage.  download to pc for uploading. add effects post processing or on the fly, or one wet and one dry..

see spook, almost no one here has owned a capable hard disk recorder, so they don't have anything cool to say about it.  it is the 1 piece of gear total recording studio solution and you get spoiled fast using a dedicated machine, dedicated to recording music

[liquidsmoke]

I have zero experience with DATs but I wouldn't want to mess with anything digital with tapes. I'd save up a bit for this bad boy- http://tascam.com/product/dp-03/
Tascam stuff tends to be relatively easy to use so I suspect the menu scrolling would be minimal. Under $300 on ebay-
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Tascam+DP-03&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Now I kinda want one.

[jibberish]

I have zero experience with DATs but I wouldn't want to mess with anything digital with tapes. I'd save up a bit for this bad boy- http://tascam.com/product/dp-03/
Tascam stuff tends to be relatively easy to use so I suspect the menu scrolling would be minimal. Under $300 on ebay-
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Tascam+DP-03&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Now I kinda want one.

bingo! digital tape= the worst of both world lol

[jibberish]

speaking of menus. if you are doing editing you need the menus and screen.

to record, play, add effects, bounce tracks, mix down, etc, you hit buttons to set function on each channel, but it is like 1 button to choose rec/play/dupe/mute/solo w/e else. no menus.

my vs 880 was old enough to have a text mode LCD. fuck that. I sent tracks that needed wave editing to the PC via the spdif digital link , did my edits in like audacity or wavelab and re-recorded it back to a phantom track on the hd recorder. way easier wave editing on the big screen pc anyway.

summary: I don't like all that menu shit either. hit a coupel selectors and record and go booyah!

[jibberish]

I have zero experience with DATs but I wouldn't want to mess with anything digital with tapes. I'd save up a bit for this bad boy- http://tascam.com/product/dp-03/
Tascam stuff tends to be relatively easy to use so I suspect the menu scrolling would be minimal. Under $300 on ebay-
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Tascam+DP-03&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Now I kinda want one.

I didn't see how many simultaneous tracks that 8channel tascam records in the specs. they only have 2 mic pre's..that usually tells me it records 2 tracks at once.  be careful..that could be useless. the dp-24 records 8 at once, not 24. caveat emptor. that is key to what you can actually do with the recorder.

[liquidsmoke]

Yeah, looks like it's only 2. DP-24 for the win. A unit like that could be useful for decades so long as it kept working.

[liquidsmoke]

Older version?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tascam-2488neo-Digital-PortaStudio-MINT-LIKE-N-E-W-/190763842756?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Multi_Track_Recorders&hash=item2c6a693cc4

[jibberish]

Older version?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tascam-2488neo-Digital-PortaStudio-MINT-LIKE-N-E-W-/190763842756?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Multi_Track_Recorders&hash=item2c6a693cc4

exactly..that has the HD in it not memory cards..no big deal. you can swap drives like floppies too, just maybe have to pop the case

there is another one for $200 down lower on that page heh.  2488 model specs clearly says records 8 tracks at once.. so there you go

[liquidsmoke]

What the DP-03 replaced, even less expensive- http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=tascam+dp-02&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[jibberish]

id still get the open box dp24 for $469 at my GC which I happened to see whilst toting 2 gretas around, but I ALWAYS drool on the multitracks anytime I go in there. 
solid state,
all done with:
moving parts,
big current draw crap,
hard working power supplies.

this is just a fancy computer now using no power at all really

[lordfinesse]

Don't know if you'd be into it, but I have a Roland VSR-880 hard disk recorder I'd let go for Jam Room price $100 + actual shipping USPS ConUS. Bought it off a friend with the intention of recording something live, but just never got around to it. We record to a computer, so I really don't need it. It will record 8 tracks simultaneously. Great condition, got the manual. It doesn't have preamps, so you'd have to run through a mixer first. It's this:




I certainly understand though if you'd rather have something simpler. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[spookstrickland]

I'm not worried about edditing, this will be strictly record until we get it right then dump it to a CD.  For FX I'm going to use outboard gear ran through the sends on my board

[spookstrickland]

Don't know if you'd be into it, but I have a Roland VSR-880 hard disk recorder I'd let go for Jam Room price $100 + actual shipping USPS ConUS. Bought it off a friend with the intention of recording something live, but just never got around to it. We record to a computer, so I really don't need it. It will record 8 tracks simultaneously. Great condition, got the manual. It doesn't have preamps, so you'd have to run through a mixer first. It's this:




I certainly understand though if you'd rather have something simpler. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Wow this opens up a whole new world, I'm going to do some research on these.  Thanks

[jibberish]

that is way like an adat in function..8 tracks, no mixer. but no bullshit tapes, and you definitely can swap those drives by opening it up.

so how do you get 5 6  mics and 2 instruments into that vsr-880? 8 buss mixer?. or I am not sure. my little behringers are 2 buss mixers and I don't think I can use the effects, unless it is stereo send. anyway, it would take 2 of these 2 buss+stereo effects send mixers to feed that vsr-880 8 inputs

I had the vs-880..ex maybe..all the same family looks, but mine was 8 track, record 4 at once, full mixer.

edit: that pic gives a great look at the crap display. imagine editing with that display. thts why I was saying, for the occasional wave edit deal, I just did it on the pc, way faster. you can date it by the scsi port on the back

[spookstrickland]

that is way like an adat in function..8 tracks, no mixer. but no bullshit tapes, and you definitely can swap those drives by opening it up.

so how do you get 5 6  mics and 2 instruments into that vsr-880? 8 buss mixer?. or I am not sure. my little behringers are 2 buss mixers and I don't think I can use the effects, unless it is stereo send. anyway, it would take 2 of these 2 buss+stereo effects send mixers to feed that vsr-880 8 inputs

I had the vs-880..ex maybe..all the same family looks, but mine was 8 track, record 4 at once, full mixer.

edit: that pic gives a great look at the crap display. imagine editing with that display. thts why I was saying, for the occasional wave edit deal, I just did it on the pc, way faster. you can date it by the scsi port on the back

No wave form editing for me.  At least not when it comes to my music.  I prefer to just play it over and over until I get it right.  I've been looking at the console version of these too.  pretty cool, but once again a lot of crazy ass tech shit too.  I wish they made something like this but as simple as the old 4 track cassette porta studios.

[fallen]

I wish they made something like this but as simple as the old 4 track cassette porta studios.

Seems like the industry has always been geared towards getting every musician to build their own home studio when it's almost pointless for me. Even if I had all the best studio gear playing music for so long means that my hearing and lack of hours in the studio means that another engineer will always be able to mix a better sounding track than I will.

Most bands should just have a black box that you can plug a bunch of mics into, have the box auto set the levels and then record everything onto a hard drive in a format that can be dropped right into Pro Tools.

Even if the tracks never make the final recording practice tracks can be perfect scratch tracks.

Laptop and M-Audio box are probably the best solution and most of those boxes come with Pro Tools LE or Ableton Live Lite or something similar.

[lordfinesse]

Yeah I wouldn't even try to edit with that thing. I was just planning to record to that machine, then dump the tracks into Cubase (or whatever) and go from there. The drives can be swapped, and I've seen some on ebay, but I never got that far into it. I have an old Yamaha mixer with direct outs from the channels.. I had planned to use that. Oh well again

[spookstrickland]

I think Being able to edit is one of the worst things that has ever happened to musicians.  Sure it can be great in an emergency but too many people rely on it for a crutch.  I just think if you can not not get through the song in 3 or 4 takes as a band then you either do not know the song well enough or you suck.