Jucifer rig

[liquidsmoke]

HAHAHA!!!

[jibberish]

the slick thing about a 3x3 speaker array is that the whole array ohms=1 driver ohms. so load it with 4's, you get a 4ohm cab and so on.

my beef is with the fact that di/dt,   t cannot equal zero. <(this is some of that engineering math horseshit I was talking about could free you)
in plain speak this means there is no such thing as instantaneous current change.
so you get a bumper-cars effect through the 3 series inductances, each one lagging the other's phase a hair more....

8 drivers in parallel all move exactly at the same time.

if you want to fuck up your hi end audio at home run 2 speakers in series. you might as well be in the bar listening to that system. shit is smeared, image gone....amp has no real control over the drivers like it does with one or a parallel array.
any multi driver home audio speaker of any quality always parallels like type drivers no exception.(that I am aware of)

[Mr. Foxen]

Sounds like a load of audiophile BS. What with it never coming up among speaker designers.

[jibberish]

Sounds like a load of audiophile BS. What with it never coming up among speaker designers.

check it out and get back to me.

better yet, find a designer touting the advantage of series drivers.

best of all find me a decent speaker with series drivers

THEN call bullshit.

you are a music gear guy, we have been through this before. I am a refined "accurate reproduction guy" you are a refined "production guy"
I imagine in guitar cabs it softens the sound a hair.
higher frequencies suffer worse obviously, but solidarity is key to powerful bass.

edit: btw, i'm a speaker designer, and it just came up in your little world

edit: talk to amp designers. see what they say about controlling back emf through a series speaker chain.

[Mr. Foxen]

Not advantage, just makes to difference to anything but impedance. Non-issue. Massive arrays of PA subs, probably not all in parallel.

[moose23]

What speakers have you designed Jibberish?

[Mr. Foxen]

Answer from Barefaced:

series wiring increases the inductance and also the impedance, and although increasing inductance would shift the effective lowpass filter lower with fixed impedance, with increased impedance the two cancel each other out.

[jibberish]

barefaced, i'm talking phase lag.   it is a series of inductors that don't all go at the same time.
if it was all one, it would all go at the same time. 
picture 3 weights attached by springs in a row, how do you accurately control the middle weight's motion THROUGH the other weights and springs. answer: YOU CANT.   also visualize if I push on the spring at one end, it compresses, moves the first weight, which compresses spring2 and THEN after time, moves the second weight and so on.

anyway, this is why I wouldn't build a 3x3

What speakers have you designed Jibberish?

foxen and I come from 2 worlds that don't exactly mesh all the time. he knows a lot of shit though, so I don't just tell him to fuck off and die. I rather value foxen because I learn stuff from him..
however, my response is partially a casual throwback at foxen to " what with it never coming up among speaker designers" a totally casual comment having no real value, as if you talked with all the speaker designers about this very topic. well now you are talking to me. if you want to be that casual.

and to be honest, I have built several speaker systems and several car stereo layouts.

this was my bible. I just got it out. second printing 1968. I probably got it like 72ish once I was driving. 400+ pages of heavy duty tech.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Hi_Fi_Loudspeakers_and_Enclosures.html?id=s8vynAEACAAJ
very first design, I did not fuck around
12" x 2 folded horn compression driver bass with horn mid/tweets for efficiency for parties.  cabs were about 2'x2'x3'(in 1972 btw). I was allowed to use the sabre saw and the drill, and I used particle board and screws for all my projects.
I did not have an RTA in highschool, so I just faithfully calculated all the numbers as best I could.

then I built a system for freq response. I used a 15" woofer, 2x2x4" refrigerator cabinet, big vent, not a port 6"mid and Phillips dome tweeters. this cab could vibrate everything in the house as I swept the test record to 15hz.   15hz makes your jaw itch and breathing is weird.    I built my own crossovers studying the filter technology and choosing my knees and falloff slopes to fit with th espeakers' natural responses vs stock value OTS shit. I sold those  speakers to a dude in MS. they thundered like no other, size was the only compromise but they were tuned to 20hz

I built my car stereo: 14 drivers, tri amped with 8 channels of amplification,1200watts rms it could suck the park avenue's electrical system dry in seconds without a storage cap, custom enclosurs and cutoff caps. I dialed it in with an RTA.
I designed the entire car as the speaker enclosure because I did not want to "bump" down the road. being a speaker designer, I quickly saw that the whole fucking car was the compression driver if the world around was the cab. somn eof these cars have such powerful low far reaching bass. Well my design was to stealth that system into my car including when we were ripping our ears out inside, it sounded factory outside. it worked great. I suffered hearing loss from it. you couldn't tell it was cranked outside the car. also, if you looked into the car, it was 100% factory. the stock stereo still worked.

changer in modded glovebox. fuck all you retards dicking around in the trunk. idiot sheep....I added an umbilical cord to the removable face on the sony head. you could pass the face around the whole car so the peeps in back could work the stereo while I was driving, all electronics buried. custom tuned speaker boxes in each door and under back deck.

it was a fucking awesome setup. freaked everyone who heard it out since there was no visible stereo besides the factory.

The stereo in the woods a 4 way stereo fake-o surround system using 4 satellites that I built and tuned cabs for and a subwoofer+bi amp for parties like around campfires.  unbelievabl how awesome it sounds with surround speakers in th etrees and the subs just tucked somewhere near the fire for people to sit on like a bench

I redesigned and rebuilt some Phillips speakers with 6" kicker drivers<-from awesomecar stereo and beefier tweets for PA use. tweaked the crossovers using an RTA(smaller cap to raise cutoff on tweet for power handling)  I now own a set of 6" 2 ways that can handle 200wrms and make your ears bleed just like the car used to do.

adjusting port lengths or vent areas while th epink noise/test mic/RTA is running is amazing how you can actually see the frequency response changing as you mess with the tube or vent

SO, is speaker design my job? no.  is it something I have been fiercely interested in since I was 16 years old yes. I have 40 years as a hobbyist, an EE degree to understand wtf they are saying, full fledged SAC consultant, sold stereos for 5 years so I was in the industry, talked with actual players like winslow burhoe etc, saw the array of products out there, am an audiophile and the long term interest has always been there. 
Am I qualified to walk right in and get a speaker design job? easily.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

foxen has only one perspective and he always filters the rest of the world through it. current speaker array tech. it is ALL about phase alignment, time delays/adjustments, and woofer arrays to solve the bass cancellation issues of forever. I guarantee you in that half mil stage woofer array setup there are ZERO series woofers. go to the mfr websites and shop time aligned woofer arrays. read and learn.

THE ONLY PLACE SERIES DRIVERS ARE ACCEPTABLE ARE IN INSTRUMENT SPEAKERS INITIALLY PRODUCING SOUND IF YOU WANT THAT FUZZING OR SMEARING. ZERO PLACE IN ACCURATE REPRODUCTION

some links as I find them:
QSC line array specs, specifically spec out parallel woofs
http://www.qscaudio.com/support/architects_engineers/WideLine-8_2008.htm


actually, idk how many spkr mfrs I have to go through, but I am not finding any series woofers yet. all paralleled into the crossover. you guys find me some series woofers in cabs besides guitar and bass cabs or shit PA stuff merely for the sound levels. I shouldn't be on the defense here. the proof is all around. pretty much everyone else building speakers came to the same conclusion: series woofers sound worse than parallel given the electronics are within their specs too.
==============================================================================
btw, if back emf is dealt with in 2 identical speakers in series assuming they move together, the two will cancel as far as what the amps see.   damping is maintained. 3 speakers is getting into the real world variations more and more and all 3 speakers began not being treated the same, as would 2 differing speakers, like even enclosure.
==============================================================================


anyway, my 8x1X10cab will smoke a v9 when I get done with it.  its bass will drive through the room like no other and that's what my nephew needs.  if I wanted a softer(less sharp defined, not quieter) sound like for a certain tone I was after I would try a v9

[moose23]

So you've designed a few cabinets but not actual speakers, that's all I was curious about. Your posts are as entertaining as ever though.

[Mr. Foxen]

What speakers have you designed Jibberish?

I built my car stereo

[VOLVO)))]

Both of you guys are cheeky cunts.

Exactly why I love this forum.

I learned a metric fuckton just now, heh.


ALPINE TEST DISC.

[moose23]

I'm not the one claiming to have designed speakers or be a speaker designer. Not a fan of being called a cunt either...

[VOLVO)))]

Oli is kind of a cunt.

[moose23]

Has cunt finally come into common usage in the US or is it still frowned upon?

[VOLVO)))]

I use it on a fairly consistent basis, my girlfriend uses it. Most of our lesser moral friends use it.

Good word. Powerful. :-D

[eddiefive10]

If you've earned the word "CUNT" you deserve it. My brothers first wife she earned the right to be called a fucking cunt!