Let's talk DRUMS!

[VOLVO)))]

Alright, I've finally got my dream kit. Mapex Orion 24x18/14x14/16x16. Iron Cobras with Danmar wood beaters. Zildijan Rock Ride 21', Rock Crash 17', Medium Crash 20', and a pair of old Zildijan rock hats.  So, I've got my big, loud motherfucker of a kit that I can play all the doom, sludge and rock n' roll on. I love this kit, and I'll keep it until I die, but now, since I'm getting back into death metal and what not, I need something I can move a little faster on. (I muffle nothing, on that kit. It's WIDE OPEN.) The Iron Cobras are fucking rad for medium speed, but those danmar beaters probably cut my speed in half, even though I've been rockin' 'em for four years (since I got my first drum kit.)

So, I've been on the search to piece together my "fuck it, I wanna play fast kit." Today, the cards fell in my favor, and someone sold me a 10x8 Maple Gretsch tom, and a 14x12 Maple Gretsch floor tom for 75 bucks. I've got a bunch of extra hardware from my days of hoarding. All I'm really missing is a super poppy snare, a second set of smaller cymbals, and a kick drum. I'm going to go small. 16-18 small. I'm most likely going to have to convert a floor tom. Guitar Center has a 16x16 and a 16x18 set of vistalite toms for a hundred bucks a piece. I don't know if I want to mix maple and lucite, unless that 18 sounds like thunder. I dunno, opinions?

Instead of constantly having to tear apart the hardware and cymbals from my "motherfucker" kit, I'm going to go ahead and pick up some nifty shit from wherever. Pedals? I don't really want another set of Iron Cobras. I noticed that since the death metal craze is wearing off there is a surplus of Axis longboards kicking around for 70-120 bucks a pop. I figure if I buy two of 'em for 140 bucks, and spend the hundred bones on the conversion kit, I can walk away with a pretty kickass quick double pedal. I've got the power to make the fuckers audible unlike a lot of people these days.

13 inch hats are a must, something trashy or super crisp(basically total opposites), probably a 20 inch thin/medium ride, 16 inch thin crash, 18 thin crash to back it up...

Snare, I don't know yet... 13x6-8 would be nice, I think. I want a really loud and audible pop.

This kit will mostly be getting blastbeats and dbeats so... I don't know, I'm just kind of excited for projects.

TALK ABOUT DRUMS, FUCK!

[ROWDYBEER]

Do you have to use some kind of patch/pad on th bass drum head with th danmar wood beater?

[VOLVO)))]

Hellllllll yes! Those things will eat through heads in a heartbeat!

[justJon]

One problem you may encounter with a converted floor tom for a "speed" kit is the depth. 16" -18" will give you a slower pneumatic rebound off the front head (assuming you leave it esentially intact, maybe a small hole for a mic, etc.)
a 20"x14" kick is probaly ideal for what you're gonna do. Personally, I'd pass on those vistalite toms, unless you're gonna do an entire kit.

I've been playing a single Axis longboard for a couple years now with my 26"x14" kick, and with the round plastic/rubber beater, not the stupid, fiddly, "sonic hammer" thing, it's got all the power of the Iron Cobra, which it replaced, and probably close to half again the speed, with the same effort. I'd say you're looking in the right direction, there.

A number of years ago, Ihad a pair of Paiste 2002 13" medium hats that were really tight and crisp sounding, very musical, too. I just never really play music that calls for that anymore, and if I do now the 16" "twenty" Medium lights I've got will do anything they did, it's just harder to do it, 'cause they're sooo much bigger.

[VOLVO)))]

I was actually going to port the front super large. I don't want to take off the hoop, and have fucking rattly lugs, so I'm gonna port the front end almost the full diameter of the tom. That way I can take out/put in muffling. I'm leaning towards the 18 simply because they make an Emad for it. Jon sold me on the longboards, if you can play them, and not destroy them, I can play them, hahaha. This is rad.

As for hats, I can't really decide. I've found that I like thinner/trashier sounding hats for faster shit, but heavier hats for slower shit. So... I dunno, it's SO HARD TO CHOOSE WHAT TO SPEND MY MONEY ON

[justJon]

Jon sold me on the longboards, if you can play them, and not destroy them, I can play them, hahaha.

Heh, I've said that before, myself. We played a Hendrix Tribute show last winter that was supposed to be backlined, but, at the last minute, the host band's drummer decided he didn't want anybody else banging on his brand-new kit. I volunteered mine, and when their guitarist said, "Are you sure?" I told him, "Absolutely! If I haven't broken it yet, none of those guys are going to!"

I see where you're going with the full-size front port. After playing for longer than I can remember with a full front head, I cut the middle out of an old pinstripe I had lying around, to use at an outdoor show (that turned out to be indoors, anyway, but....) I've got just one little strip of foam rubber, about a foot long,six inches wide, just touching the batter head. Sounds great, but I'll probably go back to the full front head. It's just what I'm used to.

[Discö Rice]

I can't say I understand this choice. I play big drums and can get damn fast when I need to. It just takes practice. You should work on your technique instead of buying new drums. May I suggest Jojo Mayer's "Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer" video?  There are some really amazing insights into blazing speed that at this fairly early stage in your development as a drummer would make you a fucking monster - and you don't need tiny drums to get there.

If you do want to take a shortcut, it's true smaller, shallower drums will get you a slight edge, but your peak will be based solely on external factors.

As for the pedal, I can't speak for the longboards, but I did at one time have an Axis A2 double pedal, and as I've mentioned a few times on this board, it was among the worst products I've ever purchased. I went from glorious volume and punch with my DW 5000 to a weak, silly sounding bottom end with my Axis. Yes the Axis was faster, but it didn't matter because it didn't cut the mustard power-wise. Also, it fell apart on stage, mid-song, mid long double bass run, at three consecutive shows. (If you want I'll go into detail about the design flaws, but I'll sum it up with this - nothing should ever have to be glued in place on a god damned bass drum pedal. Ever.) I sold it and bought the more sluggish, better made, better sounding DW 9002 after that.

Unhappy with the laggy DW pedals (even though they sounded great), I tried Trick's "Bigfoot" longboard direct drive pedals. They're built like nothing else on the market. Wanna adjust your tension? Turn a knob. That's it. No fucking around with nuts and springs. You don't even have to take the pedal off the drum or pick it up. The compression spring will fucking smoke any other design on the market. Nothing cycles faster. Lastly, this thing delivers power at those ridiculous speeds that would make any DW player jump up and slap his mama. The only thing I would recommend is changing the stock beaters. They're super light (titanium beater shafts, super light weight aircraft aluminum beater heads with optional felt pads), and even though I like playing at stupid speeds, I prefer a little extra oomph in my bottom end, even if it means sacrificing a few bpm. Those Danmar wood beaters would be perfect.

[VOLVO)))]

It's not necessarily the "I can play faster" factor, It's the "I can play faster and still make out every little note." I just want something different, it's not like I'm getting rid of the others. It's just my big-fucking-bomb drop kit, and I love it, but would like something I could play in a punk band without drowning everybody else out?

[Discö Rice]

It's not necessarily the "I can play faster" factor, It's the "I can play faster and still make out every little note." I just want something different, it's not like I'm getting rid of the others. It's just my big-fucking-bomb drop kit, and I love it, but would like something I could play in a punk band without drowning everybody else out?

Unless they're playing Pignoses your bandmates in your punk band should be fine. If it's definition you're looking for, maybe try some different heads. They change your sound dramatically, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper than new drums. I don't know what you're using now, but any 2ply clear head would focus the fundamental and shorten the sustain (read: deep and punchy). MoonGels can dry them out further if desired.

Those are pretty normal sized drums you have. I'd say perfect for the range of stuff you're doing. If you're not happy with it, by all means get something else, but don't sell your kit short. They're nice drums and there's a world of sounds to explore with what you already have.

[Discö Rice]

If anything, you may want to consider smaller cymbals. THEY are what's going to drown out the guitars for you. (but again, what you already have is perfect as far as I'm concerned, and a good excuse for you to sell them better amps )

[VOLVO)))]

i love how my kit sounds, i dont wanna change it. New drums! Shut up, hahha. Im mixing and matching, looks dont matter. Already got the toms for 75 bucks...

[Discö Rice]

Haha alright I'm done preaching. Maybe.

[The Shocker]

Yeah, he's got the sickness.  No stopping him now - gotta buy something!

[VOLVO)))]

I also want something that I can put in my band mate's car, so I don't have to drive EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I bought the stands, yesterday, they're pretty rad. A nice Sonor hi-hat stand. Cymbals/kick drum/snare is all I need, now. 18 inch maple toms are hard to find. I may go with 16 out of laziness, and when I happen across a nice 18 incher, I use the 16 as a backup/aux kick.

I feel like I want thinner cymbals, because I'm not going to be playing with my usual miniature baseball bats, most likely 5As or 7A's depending on how not-loud this band is going to be. Should be a blast.

[Wesogkan]

All I know about drums right now is that new heads make a world of difference sound-wise, and I just bought a really loud snare (Pork Pie Curly Maple). My 24" bass drum no longer sounds like shit, and I'm not using my bandmates' crusty, sweaty, bloody snare with a duct taped, rippled, stinking, head on it. Yay! Also, I think 5B drumsticks are too big for my hands...*sigh*

What? I'm a guitarist damnit.

[VOLVO)))]

Im a guitarist, too, girlfriend. I just happen to have ape hands..  how do you like that snare? Pork pie makes some boss equipment.

[Discö Rice]

Haha I use 2S's.  This younger generation is soft.   

[Griz]

Pork Pie is making their own version of a Black Beauty now. Haven't heard it but I bet you it sounds tight.

Was talking to a recording engineer friend of mine the other day saying one of the best kick drums he's ever recorded was a 20x14. I know a few dudes who play 20" and swear by em'.

[Discö Rice]

If it's all the same to you I think I'll just swear at the 20" kick drums rather than by them.

[LogicalFrank]

Haha I use 2S's.  This younger generation is soft.   

I only use 2Bs or rock but I hold them by the pointy ends like Bill Ward. I feel like the stick does more work that way and it saves my arms a bit. Plus you can bash the shit out of the motherfuckers. I have learned proper technique for the cymbals so I don't break 'em but my snare is in a constant world of pain, esp. once I've had a few beers. My left hand doesn't do shit during my day to day so when I set it lose, it parties like it means it.

[mortlock]

[Wesogkan]

Im a guitarist, too, girlfriend. I just happen to have ape hands..  how do you like that snare? Pork pie makes some boss equipment.

It was the loudest one at GC, and I got a deal because it was the floor model and I bugged the dude about it...and of course it just happens to match my drum kit. $30+ for a Remo pinstripe bass head=major sound improvement, new tom heads are next.

[Discö Rice]

Heads! What brand of heads are you all using? Mine are as follows:

(Tama Artstar II 9 ply Canadian Maple)

Snare: (14"x14")
Batter: Evans Genera HD Dry
Resonant:  Evans Hazy 300 (thinking of switching to Glass 500)

Rack Tom: (16"x16")
Batter: Evans EC2
Resonant: Evans Genera Resonant (considering black glass)

Floor Tom: (22"x16")
Batter: Aquarian Superkick 2
Resonant: EMAD Resonant

Kick Drum (22"x32")
Batter: EMAD 2 (w/ Remo Double Falam Slam kevlar impact pad)
Resonant: EMAD Resonant

[justJon]

I'm using Remo black suede Emperors for the batter on the snare and the toms. 8X14 wood Yamaha snare w/ wood rims, 12x14, 16x16 and 16x18 toms, Ludwig 6-ply classic maple. Remo black suede Ambassadors on the resos, Emperor hazy snare side. Remo Powerstroke 4 coated batter on the 14x26 kick, Ambassador fiberskyn on the reso. No muffling, no ports. BoooM!

[VOLVO)))]

I like your style Big Papa. Was it you that had that monster Rogers rig?