Playing off a generator

clockwork green · December 10, 2011, 11:59:45 AM

So I really want to do my outdoor, unexpected location "show" and record them. How would I go about figuring out my total current needs to buy/rent a generator that can handle my amp, bass players amp and a full PA and with a recording computer and maybe even lights?

RAGER · December 10, 2011, 12:27:29 PM

volts x amperes = watts

figure your current draw (amps) should be listed on your gear, multiply by voltage ( I'm assuming 120vac) = watts.

Just off the cuff I'm figuring a 4kw or 6 kw should work. They have inverter generators now that you can run in parallel (2 at a time) to achieve desired wattage.

That's the quick answer

SpaceTrucker · December 10, 2011, 12:43:42 PM

You'll also need a power conditioner cause generators tend to put out power depending on the rpms of the engine. Which I think makes them drift on the hertz. But that could just be the lower quality generators.

Also, use diesel. Its more badass.

RAGER · December 10, 2011, 12:47:21 PM

Quote from: SpaceTrucker on December 10, 2011, 12:43:42 PM
You'll also need a power conditioner cause generators tend to put out power depending on the rpms of the engine. Which I think makes them drift on the hertz. But that could just be the lower quality generators.

Also, use diesel. Its more badass.

Not inverter generators. Same voltage/freq. no matter what the rpms. These things are pretty cool.

VOLVO))) · December 10, 2011, 01:38:29 PM

Power conditioner +1

GROUNDING SPIKE.

fallen · December 10, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

I have played an outdoor show and didn't take any unusual measures. Random rental generator and some extension cords.

Full PA, SVT, 100w Marshall, 100w Fender it all worked fine. Put some foam on the mics and don't get shocked. Grounding won't be the best in that situation.

Discö Rice · December 10, 2011, 04:31:19 PM

The only generators I've seen are really effing loud. Are there especially quiet ones out there?

Ayek · December 10, 2011, 06:05:40 PM

There's usually a bolt on the generator for grounding purposes. If there's nothing around that's at ground potential, I'd be inclined to drive a metal stake into the ground and use that

Metal and Beer · December 10, 2011, 08:02:58 PM

Generators in ye olden days were loud, inefficient,often had unstable irregular output and could in fact be dangerous. The modern ones are awesome, quiet, stable output, efficient , etc.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models&section=P2GG&category=play

Mr. Foxen · December 10, 2011, 08:10:30 PM

Some amps fuck up weirdly with power fluctuations. Think valve amps tend to be OK. But might be good to check out your other stuff.

chlorpromazine · December 10, 2011, 08:20:01 PM

If you don't own one, you can rent generators from some Home Depot stores.
They do make noise, but it isn't all that bad. Just use an extension cord and put the generators as far away from the band and audience as you can. So long as you maintain the engine's ability to draw fresh air and allow for exhaust, you can build a baffle around the generator if it is just loud as balls. Use the ground lug like a previous poster stated. Drive a piece of rebar into the ground and strap the ground lug to it.

Using a power conditioner isn't a bad idea, either.

Hemisaurus · December 10, 2011, 09:16:19 PM

Quote from: SunnO))) on December 10, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
Power conditioner +1

GROUNDING SPIKE.

+100 on the spike, can't emphasize how important that is.

Most gear has it's power requirement on the back, by the power jack. Add them all up, don't expect a 100W amp to need only 100W of power, a lot is lost as heat and light.

cat shepard · December 11, 2011, 01:45:43 AM

You heard em GROUND IT!!!! A piece of re-bar works great. What kind of lights are you trying to run?

jibberish · December 11, 2011, 08:50:05 AM

a generator has no "ground" reference in the actual ground. a spike in the dirt is absolutely useless. think of it as a battery.

also, these camping generators are made for lcd tv's, PC's and other touchy digital junk. i'm not sure where this power conditioning hoodoo is coming from besides not enough research on the topic.

i have been shopping generators for a while now and i'll probably get a 1500 watt camping generator for my "outlaw pirate generator jams" that i have been talking about since forever now.

the honda generators are the finest on the market, but yes you will pay.

spookstrickland · December 11, 2011, 09:31:25 PM

Go to the Car stereo store. buy one of them cheap subwoofer amp combo boxes and run it off a jump box it's plenty loud and has a ton of low end!

Hemisaurus · December 11, 2011, 10:10:11 PM

Quote from: jibberish on December 11, 2011, 08:50:05 AM
a generator has no "ground" reference in the actual ground. a spike in the dirt is absolutely useless. think of it as a battery.

also, these camping generators are made for lcd tv's, PC's and other touchy digital junk. i'm not sure where this power conditioning hoodoo is coming from besides not enough research on the topic.

i have been shopping generators for a while now and i'll probably get a 1500 watt camping generator for my "outlaw pirate generator jams" that i have been talking about since forever now.

the honda generators are the finest on the market, but yes you will pay.

A battery doesn't generate an AC voltage, of course it needs a ground reference. Why do you think they call it ground?

I'm not trying to be combative, but you are giving unsafe, dangerous advice, that could get someone killed.

clockwork green · December 11, 2011, 10:29:26 PM

Quote from: spookstrickland on December 11, 2011, 09:31:25 PM
Go to the Car stereo store. buy one of them cheap subwoofer amp combo boxes and run it off a jump box it's plenty loud and has a ton of low end!

No, this is what you and you alone should do.

spookstrickland · December 11, 2011, 11:36:36 PM

Quote from: clockwork green on December 11, 2011, 10:29:26 PM
Quote from: spookstrickland on December 11, 2011, 09:31:25 PM
Go to the Car stereo store. buy one of them cheap subwoofer amp combo boxes and run it off a jump box it's plenty loud and has a ton of low end!
No, this is what you and you alone should do.

Don't knock it until you try it, best guerrilla rock set up ever!

Ayek · December 12, 2011, 03:26:00 AM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on December 11, 2011, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: jibberish on December 11, 2011, 08:50:05 AM
a generator has no "ground" reference in the actual ground. a spike in the dirt is absolutely useless. think of it as a battery.

also, these camping generators are made for lcd tv's, PC's and other touchy digital junk. i'm not sure where this power conditioning hoodoo is coming from besides not enough research on the topic.

i have been shopping generators for a while now and i'll probably get a 1500 watt camping generator for my "outlaw pirate generator jams" that i have been talking about since forever now.

the honda generators are the finest on the market, but yes you will pay.
A battery doesn't generate an AC voltage, of course it needs a ground reference. Why do you think they call it ground?

I'm not trying to be combative, but you are giving unsafe, dangerous advice, that could get someone killed.

I need to reinforce this. Besides, what's a power station? Yep, a big ol' generator. I wouldn't bother grounding the generator if, and only if, I was plugging in only double insulated appliances (they has no grounding pin) such as a drill or a heatgun or something. Otherwise, for fuck's sake, ground your shit. I feel weird saying 'ground' instead of 'earth', by the way.

Hemisaurus · December 12, 2011, 08:13:01 AM

I can tell you, even after 15+ years, it doesn't get any easier

Quote from: Ayek on December 12, 2011, 03:26:00 AM
I feel weird saying 'ground' instead of 'earth', by the way.

jibberish · December 12, 2011, 08:56:00 AM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on December 11, 2011, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: jibberish on December 11, 2011, 08:50:05 AM
a generator has no "ground" reference in the actual ground. a spike in the dirt is absolutely useless. think of it as a battery.

also, these camping generators are made for lcd tv's, PC's and other touchy digital junk. i'm not sure where this power conditioning hoodoo is coming from besides not enough research on the topic.

i have been shopping generators for a while now and i'll probably get a 1500 watt camping generator for my "outlaw pirate generator jams" that i have been talking about since forever now.

the honda generators are the finest on the market, but yes you will pay.
A battery doesn't generate an AC voltage, of course it needs a ground reference. Why do you think they call it ground?

I'm not trying to be combative, but you are giving unsafe, dangerous advice, that could get someone killed.

grounding back to the generator ground is one thing. that's not what y'all were saying. y'all were saying put a spike in the dirt.
the power grid is tied to earth ground. a generator is a fully 100% isolated power supply and IS NOT TIED TO EARTH GROUND. putting a ground spike in the earth is a dead end wire. there is no ground circuit.

i dont see how you can call reality dangerous advice. read slowly what was posted prior to my post and you will understand why i mentiuoned an earth ground is USELESS. if you ground, you ground the green wire to the GENERATOR COMMON GROUND. NOT THE EARTH

so spealing of potentially LETHAL advice, your ground wire in the dirt IS NOT A GROUND AT ALL.
and i agree, dont argue with me on this simple concept.

jibberish · December 12, 2011, 09:03:10 AM

Since the generator is 100% ISOLATED from everything else, you cannot be the victim of a ground fault electrocution like if you stand in water while playing. you all need to understand this about generators. the battery reference was to the total isolation wrt earth ground. not that a battery is an AC device, come on now.

so tell me please exactly what IS the lethal part here of not "grounding" an electrical device plugged into a generator? if it shorts it catches fire until the circuit breaker goes and you may get burned. if you grab the 2 hot wires, well yes, you will get zapped.

jibberish · December 12, 2011, 09:09:50 AM

furthermore, since there is no true earth ground, which is subject to fluctuation wrt neutral, ungrounded earth reference devices can actually have the ground potential float away from the neutral and you will get tickled from the neutral of an ungrounded device since you are now the ground fault. when a geographic location gets loaded down the neutral gets pulled up. and a ground is needed to keep neutral at ground.

the generators are well regulated and there is no earth ground to float around. please get this detail straight.

apples and oranges folks. power grid AC is a whole different animal from isolated independent power supplies.

Hemisaurus · December 12, 2011, 10:57:10 AM

You're not grounding for a reference, you are grounding for safety. You can tie all your commons or neutral's together, great for no hum, but if you don't have a path to the ground you are standing on, the possibilty for a lethal potential difference is there.

Current goes to ground, if you're generator is insulated from ground, current will seek the path of least resistance, which could be the person touching his guitar, or holding a mic stand.

It doesn't matter whether the power is generated in a power station miles away, and stepped down via an electric substation, or created with a small engine powered alternator beside you, it obeys the same laws.

RAGER · December 12, 2011, 11:45:44 AM

Wow this discussion took off. My computer has been fucked up so I couldn't chime in again.

First off let me say that I am an RV Technician for a living and have been for the past 15 years. Generators are in my daily work life. YOU DON'T NEED A GODDAMN GROUND SPIKE!!!!!!

Do you ever see RV's driving around with a ground spike?? No you don't and somehow those people are operating their appliances safely. They are protected by a GFCI circuit internally. The generator you will be using also is protected by a GFCI internally. VERY SIMPLE.

Unless you are using an extremely outdated generator you will not need a power conditioner. Any generator you RENT will be safe, updated, and maintained. IT'S THE LAW!!!.

The inverter generators especially will be able to handle up to about 30 amps all the way down to micro amps and voltages. Many of the new power managing equipment and refrigerators in RV's have sensitive circuit boards that don't like fluctuations and modified sine waves. These generators are made for this type of stuff.

On occasion I sell these stand alone generators and nowhere does it say to add a farking ground spike. Hopefully that clears it up